SVS SB16 compared to JL Audio F113v2

[McIntosh-maTRiX]

I respect your opinion, no problem...

Only one question:
have you ever listened to the sub25 or a sub2?

[SAPHANA]

I own SB16 and F110. SB16 only wins when it comes to power, so I use it purely for HT. F110s blend in seamlessly when playing music.

One thing I don’t understand is I set the low pass filter frequency and slope the same, but SB16 simply cannot blend in well at all.

[Ricjor1]

Originally Posted by SAPHANA

I own SB16 and F110. SB16 only wins when it comes to power, so I use it purely for HT. F110s blend in seamlessly when playing music.

One thing I don’t understand is I set the low pass filter frequency and slope the same, but SB16 simply cannot blend in well at all.

I've owned both and I've always said, if HT only I would choose SVS, but for music I prefer REL and JL Audio.

[Ricjor1]

Originally Posted by McIntosh-maTRiX

I respect your opinion, no problem...

Only one question:
have you ever listened to the sub25 or a sub2?

No, I haven't. I've listened to HSU, REL, JL Audio, Martin Logan, SVS, Earthquake, Wilson Audio, and Paradigm subs.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by SAPHANA

I own SB16 and F110. SB16 only wins when it comes to power, so I use it purely for HT. F110s blend in seamlessly when playing music.

One thing I don’t understand is I set the low pass filter frequency and slope the same, but SB16 simply cannot blend in well at all.

Han,

There is also a time function you need to leverage in order to blend in a sub. JL Audio subs either need to be closer to you by about 6-9’ or you need to use the phase adjustment on the sub to insure the wave front of the sub, arrives at your listening position as the main speakers.

The JL Audio subs have an electronic delay in them that requires they be closer to you. However, you can speed up their sound by using the phase adjustment.

Try this. Reverse your speakers cable connections on the speaker closest to your sub. Disconnect the other main speaker.

Play a 80Hz test signal of you can find one. Then place your ear half way between your sub and the speaker you reversed the connections to. Then adjust the phase on the JLAudio Sub until you hear a null or significant reduction in that signal. It means you have time aligned those two speakers.

Reconnect your other speaker and correctly connect the main speaker you had reversed the speaker cables on.

You should have tighter bass with bass notes all sounding distinct. You want to avoid ‘one note’ bass!!

Failing that, find the Sound Doctor on the web and get his test disc and instructions on how to blend in a sub.

[McIntosh-maTRiX]

A comparison of the SUB25 with the F113 on the web:

Comparison

It seems to me that in designing the Signature Sub 25, Paradigm was taking aim at JL Audio’s Fathom f113. The f113 is a more mature product than the Sub 25 -- it’s been available for a couple of years now -- and costs from $3300 to $3700, depending on finish. JL subs come in just two finishes, satin black or piano black; the Sub 25’s cherry and maple finishes make it a better-looking product. However, the Fathom is slightly smaller, permitting greater flexibility of placement and décor. Both subs have massively built drivers -- 13.5" in the f113, 15" in the Sub 25 -- capable of extreme excursion. Also, both have built-in room-correction software for smoother frequency response. The JLs come with the software already loaded into the sub, while Paradigm requires you to separately purchase the PBK-1 Perfect Bass Kit ($300). JL’s Automatic Room Optimization (ARO) is a single-frequency notch filter, while the Paradigm’s room correction is a spinoff of Anthem’s ARC software, developed for Anthem’s flagship D2 processor. To use the PBK-1, you need a laptop to run the room-correction test, and then download the settings to the Sub 25. JL’s setup is far more quick and easy: Connect the provided microphone, place it at the listening position, press the Calibrate button on the sub, and wait for the test to finish.

Both subwoofers were capable of playing very, very loud, but the Sub 25’s larger cabinet and driver meant that it could play deeper and louder than the Fathom f113, with more dynamic range and with less apparent effort. When I reviewed the f113 a few years back, it was easy to hear the difference between it and the other subs I had on hand at the time. Comparing the f113 with the Signature Sub 25 provided much the same results, this time in favor of the Paradigm. The latter’s 15" driver simply controlled my room in ways the JLA couldn’t -- and the Sub 25’s natural maple finish had seduced me. The JL Audio Fathom f113 was the subwoofer to beat. The Paradigm Signature Sub 25 now is the sub to beat.

Conclusion

I so loved my time with Paradigm’s Signature Sub 25 that I’ve decided to make it my reference subwoofer. Never has a subwoofer energized my room in so dominant yet so controlled a way. In the past, whenever I’ve written about how this or that subwoofer I was reviewing did a wonderful job of "disappearing" -- i.e., not audibly drawing attention to its position -- I never felt as if I was overstating that quality. I guess it just takes a better one to point out the difference. The fit’n’finish of its beautiful cabinet, its massive 15" driver, its ultrapowerful class-D amplifier, and its unmatched performance make the Paradigm Signature Sub 25 the best subwoofer I know of.

[SAPHANA]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Han,

There is also a time function you need to leverage in order to blend in a sub. JL Audio subs either need to be closer to you by about 6-9’ or you need to use the phase adjustment on the sub to insure the wave front of the sub, arrives at your listening position as the main speakers.

The JL Audio subs have an electronic delay in them that requires they be closer to you. However, you can speed up their sound by using the phase adjustment.

Try this. Reverse your speakers cable connections on the speaker closest to your sub. Disconnect the other main speaker.

Play a 80Hz test signal of you can find one. Then place your ear half way between your sub and the speaker you reversed the connections to. Then adjust the phase on the JLAudio Sub until you hear a null or significant reduction in that signal. It means you have time aligned those two speakers.

Reconnect your other speaker and correctly connect the main speaker you had reversed the speaker cables on.

You should have tighter bass. More of a ‘one note’ bass.

Failing that, find the Sound Doctor on the web and get his test disc and instructions on how to blend in a sub.

Wow! Again I am learning something which I've never heard of before. Thank you so much Craig! Now I simply put the subs besides my speakers. I will try your suggestions out. I do have 3 test CDs from Stereophile to produce some test sounds.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by SAPHANA

Wow! Again I am learning something which I've never heard of before. Thank you so much Craig! Now I simply put the subs besides my speakers. I will try your suggestions out. I do have 3 test CDs from Stereophile to produce some test sounds.

Helps if you have a helper to adjust the phase control if you can’t reach it! Move it a lot to hear what happens and then zero in on the minimum or null.

[theophile]

crwilli

The term 'one note bass' isn't a compliment. It is a criticism denoting that the bass response sounds like one single note on the musical scale.

From your description it sounds like the procedure you outline provides quality bass, which is anything but one note bass. Congratulations and thanks for explaining the procedure

[crwilli]

You are correct of course. I used the wrong term. ‘One note’ bass is what we are trying to avoid.

What was going through my mind was ‘hearing all the notes’, as distinct sounds. For example, as Wasserman goes up and down his standup bass on ‘The Ballad of A Runaway Horse’. Instead of one note, I should have said Distinct notes.

Thank you for the correction!!!