Use of antiskate on VPI 12.7 arm (for Lyra Kleos)

[PMCH]

lem321, I have a Lyra Kleos on my VPI JMW Memorial 10.5" tone arm, on my Classic 3. I don't have the VPI fishline anti-skate attached per VPI's suggestion and think it sounds great. Not sure if your longer tone arm would benefit with more anti-skate.

[lem321]

I finally got the anti-skate right with my VPI 12.7 arm with the Lyra Kleos. The cartridge with the proper anti-skate doesn't "lean" inward toward the spindle (relative to the stylus) when I place it down on the rotating record and the image is now centered. Sound quality is improved - seems to have a quieter background and tracks better (fewer pops). My end point with the AS adjustment was to see how much lean there was, centering of the image, but also I used an old (but unplayed) record that had no grooves and adjusted the AS so the needle moved very little. The degree of skating seems to be more toward the inner grooves and less so on the outer ones. Thanks for everyone's input.

By the way what are you using (ohms) for cartridge loading for the Kleos?

[PMCH]

lem321, I set my Lyra Kleos to 100 ohms on my Audia Flight. I only tried it with 100 and 200 ohms and preferred the 100 ohm setting so I didn't increase the ohm setting any further. My phono stage uses jumpers to increase the ohm settings so I can't A & B quickly.
I will have to test my anti skate setting again. I use Donald Fagen's Sunken Condos side 4 as it is blank.

[lem321]

Paul,

I've been playing with the cartridge loading on my Vendetta phono stage which has the option of adding resistors to the circuit boards and precisely set the cartridge loading. According to directions that came with the Kleos, loading is dependent upon the capacitance between cartridge and phono stage (or basically the capacitance of your phono cable). I was able to measure the capacitance of my Hovland phono cable (33pF). Using the loading that Jonathan Carr recommends in the instructions for the Kleos, I came up with about 523 +/- ohms. I know that Michael Fremer used 100 ohms in his Stereophile review. Tom Lyle also used 100 ohms in his review. Bottom line will really be how it sounds.

Wilson

[miketuason]

lem, what did you do to finalize your AS setting?

[lem321]

Mike,

See my previous post (#12) but basically, I fine tuned the the antiskate using two extra metal washers as counterweights (with your help) until I got the arm/cartridge to stay fairly stationary when lowered onto a moving(groove-less) record. Image is now centered and not to the left. No twisting of the tonearm cable to the junction box. So far, so good. Seems quieter with better tracking.

Wilson

[miketuason]

Originally Posted by lem321

Mike,

See my previous post (#12) but basically, I fine tuned the the antiskate using two extra metal washers as counterweights (with your help) until I got the arm/cartridge to stay fairly stationary when lowered onto a moving(groove-less) record. Image is now centered and not to the left. No twisting of the tonearm cable to the junction box. So far, so good. Seems quieter with better tracking.

Wilson

Thanks lem, glad to hear you got it set up, thanks.

[Front242]

On my classic 3, adjustment of azimuth (which is what I think you are talking about when you say the stylus is tilted) is done at the pivot. Not with anti-skate. Did you use a fozgometer or a similar tool to check and adjust azimuth before proceeding down the anti skate route?

[PMCH]

lem321, I put my anti skate ring with fishwire back on my tone arm today. I was able to tune it in perfectly with my blank sided record. Everything sounds even better now. I was able to get it set correctly with just the supplied O rings, didn't need any metal washers. Thanks for your suggestion.

[lem321]

PMCH and Front242,

PMCH, glad the use of the antiskate made a difference. I found the same to be true. Harry Weisfeld must be hearing something different (better) without antiskate, as he maintains his tables sound better without AS(?!). On the other hand, he is now offering the AS gizmo stock on a number of his arms or as an add-on with older arms. I went by what Jonathan Carr recommended with his Lyra cartridges - that this is an important parameter to adjust (like VTF but in a horizontal vector).

Front242, I wasn't referring to azimuth when I was referring to the "lean" but antiskate only. I have used the Fozgmeter. The "lean" refers to what the cartridge body does with my TNT6/12.7 arm when I set the stylus down on a rotating record. That is, the skating force causes the cartridge body to lean (leftward) towards the spindle while the stylus stays in the groove. It almost appears that the cantilever is deviated to the right relative to the body. Make sense? The azimuth is unchanged as the top of the cartridge when viewed from the front stays horizontal. On a stationary record, as you set the stylus down, the cartridge body stays right over (and is aligned with) the cantilever/stylus.