HiFi Tuning Fuses Installed

[Beowulf62]

FWIW: A few measurement reviews have found lower resistance and lower/different noise distribution with "premium" fuses.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by junker

An ideal fuse would carry it's rated current and melt immediately above this rated current from the element, solder, or a junction melting.

Silver does have the best conductivity of any element (62.9 * 10^6 / ohm * cm). So, possibly this combination of high conductivity and low specific heat more closely achieve the characteristics of an ideal fuse?

Let's assume that a typical fuse uses aluminum then it only has an electrical conductivity of 37.7 * 10^6 / ohm * cm (60% of silver) allows the fuse filament to be much finer. On the thermal side of things the finer wire and the fact that silver has a specific heat - the amount of energy required to raise a certain mass by one degree - that is only 14% that of aluminum. In other words, it only takes 1/8th the energy to raise the same mass of silver metal as needed with aluminum. And with the fact that the filament can be drawn finer - even considering the higher melting point and lower density (1/4) with Al - I think it is plausible that a silver fuse could have less resistance, yet quickly heat and melt in an over current situation more closely achieving the characteristics of an "ideal" fuse. Now, because they still have the same rated current before fusing (melting) is there a sonic difference... Perhaps, it can have lower resistance under typical current loads yet thermally ramp faster and open at the same max current that the typical fuse would fail at.

I'd say you can't completely discount it. Personally, I'd probably only do it if I had a blown fuse but maybe there is something to it...

Junker.......Thank you for the technical insight. Great post.

[bdowell]

Wow that's starting to make sense now. Thanks for the great explanation.

[junker]

Nice. Thanks guys!

Usually, the example for specific heat I use in my class is a frying pan.

You find the cheap ones in aluminum, can pay more and get cast iron, and can pay even more and get copper cookware. But why?

Copper has a lower specific heat than iron, and both are lower than aluminum. So for an equal mass frying pan the copper is going to heat up the fastest, and aluminum the slowest.

Specific Heat (Joules to raise 1 gram of metal by 1 degree Celcius)

• Gold 0.128
• Silver 0.235
• Copper 0.385
• Iron 0.449
• Aluminum 0.90
• Water 4.184 <- takes a lot of energy to warm up. Why coastal areas are thermally more consistent than inland.

With conductivity, density, oxidation, alloys, melting points, etc the fuse isn't entirely that simple, but it's pretty interesting to try to possibly explain why it might be working better for you guys.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by junker

Nice. Thanks guys!

Usually, the example for specific heat I use in my class is a frying pan.

You find the cheap ones in aluminum, can pay more and get cast iron, and can pay even more and get copper cookware. But why?

Copper has a lower specific heat than iron, and both are lower than aluminum. So for an equal mass frying pan the copper is going to heat up the fastest, and aluminum the slowest.

Specific Heat (Joules to raise 1 gram of metal by 1 degree Celcius)

• Gold 0.128
• Silver 0.235
• Copper 0.385
• Iron 0.449
• Aluminum 0.90
• Water 4.184 <- takes a lot of energy to warm up. Why coastal areas are thermally more consistent than inland.

With conductivity, density, oxidation, alloys, melting points, etc the fuse isn't entirely that simple, but it's pretty interesting to try to possibly explain why it might be working better for you guys.

junker, I really enjoy your posts. Keep them coming!

[Rick58]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

This thread has been an interesting read and, for me, begs another thought and question that I don't have an answer to.

I have seen and owned equipment whose manufacturers have advertised as having, for instance, higher quality internal wiring using brand name cabling rather than generic copper wiring. Unless this was intended purely for marketing purposes, I am assuming they did this to provide sonic benefits to their customers.

Do manufacturers of quality audio equipment currently specify and provide high-end fuses as original equipment in their offerings? I would think that equipment designed and manufactured with a cost-is-no-object philosophy would consider incorporating these higher quality fuses.

Your thoughts?

I don't know if there are OEMs that use/specify high-end fuses, possibly the manufacturers of the fuses won't give them enough of a volume discount to make it a good marketing decision? or, there are now more than 2 'choices' for these fuses, so if they selected one, folks would ask 'why not the other?' etc..

Also, I imagine the 'magic fuse' folks don't WANT OEMs using their products, as the profit margin is likely higher the way things are done now. Possibly also they cannot 'handle' supplying the numbers a large OEM may want.

Seems like a similar discussion to McIntosh (and/or other OEMs) using generic Chinese tubes, which likely were chosen for their availability, reliability, measurements, etc.. They sound 'good' but many optional NOS and new manufacture tubes (Psvane, Gold Lion) are distinct improvements for a relatively small premium in cost.

Not that a silver fuse has the same degree of improvement as a tube swap, but to me the improvement was certainly there, repeatable, and yes, the orientation made a small but discernable difference!

BTW, I did spend another $120 and replaced the 3 internal fuses in my McIntosh C220 preamp. I heard NO difference, but did not repeat with various orientations, etc., and/or with and without the 'mains' rear panel fuse upgraded or not. I left them in there, thinking that at least they now have whatever benefit there is, and hope/assume they work identically (as fuses) to the OEM parts.

A side comment to the gentleman that was offended by the negative responses to his posts, etc.: I am amazed that you use many 'tweaky' products in your system, yet dismiss the fuse tweak out of hand. At a likely system cost of well over $30k, seems like a ~0.1% cost tweak would be in the noise, so to speak, and would be a fun experiment. That's the way I treated it anyway, and was pleased with the outcome.

[junker]

Just ordered a 15A Gold Hi-Fi Tuning fuse for the MC452. Thanks Dan.

Not going to bother with the D100. It has a small 630mA and 4x500mA.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by junker

Just ordered a 15A Gold Hi-Fi Tuning fuse for the MC452. Thanks Dan.

Josh.......Don't forget to play with the direction of the fuse in the fuse holder. Listen for a few hours and then turn the fuse around. If you discover the MC452 sounds better one way over the other let us know.

[junker]

I just cheated and took your word for it with the arrow pointing toward the cap in the MC452.

Since this thing is drawing up to 12A of current though a 15A fuse I can see how a silver filament and caps could maybe reduce a bottleneck in the AC supply.

The MC452 is sounding great now that it is getting a few hours on it, so I can't tell you if it's the break-in or the fuse, but it's sounding pretty amazing.

[jdandy]

Josh.......Please, don't take my word for it, really! Spend a few hours with the fuse installed in one direction, then reverse it and see (hear) what may be different and whether it is an improvement over the opposite fuse orientation. Don't leave something to chance when there may be some performance advantage to gain. Try it both ways. You may come back to this orientaion, or maybe not. Let your ears be the judge.

How many hours are on the MC452 right now?