As soon as my wife left for the day this morning...

[jimtranr]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Intriguing title for this thread.

Yes, I did something similar one day. Fortunately and very surprisingly my wife actually liked it. Of course this is a dedicated theater room in the basement so perhaps she didn't care as much.

Great room. I have no doubt that what you hear in there is fabulous.

But seriously, acoustic treatments simply do what no upgrades of gear in the world can. The quality of sound improves in epic proportions. I kept adding a few panels here and there and noticed how the echo's, ringing and leanness turned to smooth, rich, gorgeous sound with deep, tuneful bass and jaw dropping focus/imaging.

Agree 100%. I'd been considering an upgrade or two before Michael suggested adjustments to the trap configuration I'd already had in place in this very problematic space. Bingo! It accomplished far more than I expected, getting me right to where I wanted to go.

Hopefully you'll get to keep some of the treatments in your room and enjoy the improved sound. Good luck!

The basic trap configuration stays (my wife agrees--her jaw nearly dropped when she heard what the recommended adjustments did, and she's actually pretty supportive as long as I don't preempt space she has in mind for a dishware cabinet). And at least some of the "extra" traps are going into my secondary system.

[cmalak]

Jim...actually Serge's pics reminded me that I meant to bring up the half rounds which seem to be just as effective and perhaps less visually intrusive. Is that an option for you to experiment with? At least for the front and backwalls and maybe a few strategically placed on the ceiling. Just a thought.

[jimtranr]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Jim...actually Serge's pics reminded me that I meant to bring up the half rounds which seem to be just as effective and perhaps less visually intrusive. Is that an option for you to experiment with? At least for the front and backwalls and maybe a few strategically placed on the ceiling. Just a thought.

Cyril, thanks for the suggestion. I'd considered half rounds as a possibility, but the front wall prints rule that out (I'm not going to take on that battle), and since 16" Supers occupy the rear corners, visual intrusivensess isn't an issue back there (there are also plans for a dishware cabinet that will take up most of the rest of that wall). The ceiling's a possibility, though that would require some, ahem, careful treading.

The "basic" configuration pictured and diagrammed in the attachments has actually effected a considerable sonic improvement over what was. What I played with today was to see what a more complete (though by no means comprehensive) implementation of the "attack wall" might accomplish.

[cmalak]

Jim...got it. Sounds like you are getting it done already with your baseline configuration. Did you get ASC's recommendations on where to place or was it trial and error or a bit of both? Just curious. Thx

[jimtranr]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Sounds like you are getting it done already with your baseline configuration. Did you get ASC's recommendations on where to place or was it trial and error or a bit of both?

Cyril, I'd started with a trial-and-error configuration that trapped the rear corners, a portion of the rear wall, as much of the fireplace front as I could cover without stepping on the turntable, the space (including the jog-out corner) on either side of the piano, a couple of spaces on the opposite long wall in and near the dining area, and a couple of spots near the front. I then sent photos and a diagram to Michael Adams, who looked it over and called with a suggestion to "clamp" the speakers and remove all but the fireplace, piano, and rear corner traps--the plan you see in the diagram. The result was...Woohoo!

The "clamp" is what makes it go. Despite the lack of front corner trapping, that technique effectively clears "mud" out of the presentation.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by jimtranr

Cyril, I'd started with a trial-and-error configuration that trapped the rear corners, a portion of the rear wall, as much of the fireplace front as I could cover without stepping on the turntable, the space (including the jog-out corner) on either side of the piano, a couple of spaces on the opposite long wall in and near the dining area, and a couple of spots near the front. I then sent photos and a diagram to Michael Adams, who looked it over and called with a suggestion to "clamp" the speakers and remove all but the fireplace, piano, and rear corner traps--the plan you see in the diagram. The result was...Woohoo!

The "clamp" is what makes it go. Despite the lack of front corner trapping, that technique effectively clears "mud" out of the presentation.

Jim...very interesting. Thx for the explanation.

[Michael TubeTrap]

Jim, I just loved your full-scale experiment!!! We're all still just boys at heart, aren't we. Instead of making forts with the sofa cushions, we're making attack walls with our TubeTraps. And having just as much fun.

Art Noxon came up with this acoustic design late one night at a trade show. He had been working with Neil Patel, trying to get Neil's latest Avalon speaker to sound good for the big unveiling the next morning. The room they had was a big ballroom in NYC, with floor-to-ceiling windows along one wall, a big reverb chamber of a bar area to the other side, and a huge chandelier hanging up above. No amount of Tubes in corners, Tubes along the walls, etc seemed to make the room or speakers sound any good. The room looked great, but sounded terrible. And we all know how a bad sounding room gets reported at a new product intro: the speaker gets blamed, not the room.

Everyone else knocked off to get something to eat, but Art kept working. Finally, out of desperation, he tried "isolating" the speakers from the room. He did something almost exactly like Jim did, isolating the direct sound of the speaker from the early room reflections. It sounded amazing! Then Art started removing Tubes, to see how few it took to make the speakers sound good. By the time Neil came back, Art had one single Tube on the outside edge of each speaker, and two Tubes on the inside edges. Only six Tubes, on large floor standing speakers in a big ballroom!

The objection to this design then is the same as now - people want to see the speakers, not see Tubes. To improve the appearance Art found that the Tubes can be staggered at an angle that bends away from the listener, and towards the front of the room.

We still like to quiet some of the room's noise. In Jim's case I suggested he keep some of the larger Tubes in the corners. But "clamping" as he says the smaller Tubes to each side of the speaker gives you a sound that is something like headphones in its clarity, but with all the dynamics and soundstage of speakers in a great room. Much fun.

Michael Adams

[cmalak]

Michael...thanks for sharing

[jimtranr]

Apt analogy, Michael. When I showed my wife the photo of what I'd been up to, her amused response was tantamount to "a boy playing in his fort." (And sorry, guys, no big bad wolf's fangs, legal proceedings, or "sale" in the offing.)

After reading your account of what Art did, I snugged a three-foot 11-inch trap up to the inboard 9-incher against each speaker. And achieved most of what I got with the full-frontal "attack," rendering the 40-inch flat screen and tile fireplace behind the SE-3's virtual non-factors in the sonic equation. You're spot on in terms of the clarity, dynamics, and scale of the presentation. Very elegant (and relationship-friendly) solution to a problematic situation.

[-E-]

Jim,

I'd mount the flat-panel TV, put the turntable on the cabinet, and then finish off covering that fireplace with more tubetraps... should be WAF-acceptable since it will add more symmetry to the room.