Vinyl Dynamic Range

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 1KW

If you have not already done so, take a ride to Princeton and visit the Princeton Record Exchange. They have new and used LP's, CD's, DVD's and Blu Ray disks . About how many albums are you up to now ?

Approaching 200 albums. Most of them were bought new and majority were in the $50 range since I just had to have them. I am trying not to load up on too many records since storage is a bit problematic right now and I am simply running out of room to store them. Once I am in the new listening room, I am thinking of having custom built-ins to store many, many more. One thing for sure, vinyl is here to stay in my system.

[1KW]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Approaching 200 albums. Most of them were bought new and majority were in the $50 range. I am trying not to load up on too many records since storage is a bit problematic right now and I am simply running out of room to store them. Once I am in the new listening room, I am thinking of having custom built-ins to store many, many more. One thing for sure, vinyl is here to stay in my system.

I can help you, I have lots of shelves in my 2 channel room to fill up . Send them over

[f1 fan]

I've got plenty of shelves to store lps so send them my way. I've got lots of time since I lost my job so let's get spinning!!


Dave

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Just got the Ray Brown Trio "Soular Energy" LP "Pure Audiophile" 180gm pressing. Half speed mastered by Stan Ricker. Sticker on the album says "Caution, dynamic recording of bass may cause difficulties at low tracking forces".

Don't have any issues since I am tracking at 2.25gm with Maestro Wood and I have to say, this LP is fantastic. The bass is spectacular on this LP and it blows the door of the CD of the same recording. The bass is so deep and so wholesome with such tremendous impact, articulation and definition, it was like hearing what my turntable and cartridge are really capable of for the first time. Sorry to the vinyl critics, the digital recording of the CD doesn't have anything over the LP version, just the opposite.

Vinyl is not dead, it's only getting better. Long live vinyl! I hope that studios keep bringing us such incredible recordings.

I have that same LP and also the CD. Once again, IMO, the LP trumps the CD as you've mentioned. Infact, as I’ve stated previously, my vinyl sounds better. Those vinyl grooves hold the music moreso than what’s etched on a CD. Without getting out of control, it has a more exciting, richer sound, and instruments are more pronounced – a sharper zing than I’ve experienced with CD.

Now, have I always felt that way. No, but my analog front end is ridiculously better these days than it was in 1982 (the year inwhich I bought my first CD player). I would have never in my wildest dreams have thought I'd spend $3500 on a cartridge. Good golly, it hurts to type that.

Originally Posted by Stillone

Serge
It is something else than Dynamic Range that is making an LP sound better than CD. The maximum dynamic range of an LP is 70db to 75dB , whereas CD is 90db (some would argue 96 dB if all 16 bits were available)
Jim

Could very well be – I’m more prone to believe it could lie in relative dynamics which differ from dynamic range . Relative dynamics is the difference in dB between any two points in a waveform whereas dynamic range is the difference between the loudest signal and the noise floor. When comparing LP’s to CD’s, it’s here, relative dynamics, where LP’s usually win over their CD counterparts.

Regarding dynamic range on superior recorded LP’s, it has been documented the noise floor is even lower for an "audiophile" pressing on good quality vinyl. For instance, MFSL of Three Works For Jazz Soloists & Symphony Orchestra ( Don Sebesky ) MFSL 2-503. The measured noise floor of this LP is convincingly below -90dB all the way down to 400Hz. So it would appear quality LPs do have a reasonable dynamic range for the majority of the audible frequency range.

[Jerome W]

Serge,
I'm happy for you.
You're just "beginning to see the light" !
Yes, most recordings are more dynamic on LPs than Cds. It could be due to the mastering process. Or something else.
The perceived dynamics on LPs are much higher than the objective measurments. That's a fact.
The bass is almost always where the difference is the bigger.
Happy to see I'm not alone to hear what I hear.
Cheers,
Jérôme

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Serge,
I'm happy for you.
You're just "beginning to see the light" !
Yes, most recordings are more dynamic on LPs than Cds. It could be due to the mastering process. Or something else.
The perceived dynamics on LPs are much higher than the objective measurments. That's a fact.
The bass is almost always where the difference is the bigger.
Happy to see I'm not alone to hear what I hear.
Cheers,
Jérôme

That line is a bit scary. Saying ones perceived observations are more valid than objective measurements, and calling it a "fact". Now if you said that was the opinion rather than a fact, then I would agree 100%.

Jim

[schaefer11]

Lets not forget the whole cartridge/RIAA frequency response deviations that one has with vinyl playback. Cartridges were, and I assume still are, very much "voiced" by the manufacturers. I remember well the "airier" top ends of moving coil cartridges, that was a function of most of them having significantly rising top end frequency response.

Add to that phono sections of pre-amps with inaccurate RIAA correction and you will almost certainly end up with frequency response deviations. They may be pleasing to the ear, but they are deviations.

I think it is much easier to "voice" a vinyl setup to a sound that pleases you. Albeit, it may not be the most "accurate" sound. Hard to voice a CD player without switching from player to player. Much easier to swap out cartridges.

I think the ability to massage the sound to taste is a big reason why vinyl has survived with many audiophiles. If vinyl can be made to sound "better" to a particular individual, then it is better, to them.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Stillone

That line is a bit scary. Saying ones perceived observations are more valid than objective measurements, and calling it a "fact". Now if you said that was the opinion rather than a fact, then I would agree 100%.

Jim

You're right Jim. That's just an opinion.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

You're right Jim. That's just an opinion.

An probably valid most of the time.

[PHC1]

Jim, the superiority of a CD as a media is unquestionable. If everything was great in the digital world though, there would not be any discussions and everyone would have long forgotten the "vinyl dinosaur". As it stands, we are still here talking about it due to the continued practice of "loudness mastering', "jitter", "choice of digital filters", "advantage of more bits vs less bits" and other gremlins that still plague the digital world making vinyl a viable and often more "musical" option.

It would seem that digital would be well settled by now given the amount of years its been around but that is hardly the case as there is still progress going on as witnessed by better and better DAC's, breakthroughs in filters, jitter control, higher resolution files, SACD, better mastering from the likes of XRCD, etc.....

As it stands, much vinyl is clearly better than many CDs and there are some CDs that are obviously well mastered and do exhibit great dynamic range and are even "musical". I can't however argue with the results, comparing the vinyl albums with their CD cousins, I can often hear the advantage of vinyl with both dynamic range and musicality. No superior specs of CD media are going to convince me otherwise.

CD/SACD can technically "house" better dynamic range and doesn't suffer from vinyl gremlins like surface noise or pops and ticks if they exist on vinyl but that is not always what you really get. Instead there are still loudness wars going with the resulting dynamic range compression, clipped peaks, harshness, shrillness, fatigue... you know what I am talking about. The digital front is definitely getting better and digital is the future but I guess many more agree that vinyl is still often the more musical and enjoyable alternative as witnessed by the resurgence of vinyl and triple digit growth year over year of vinyl sales.