Wilson VS Magico v3-Q3

[rlacoste]

Originally Posted by thesaint519

I believe system synergy, amidst the myriad other of variables - to include one's listening preferences, plays a very major role in what one hears. And I, by no means, have a golden ear. I did, however, get a rare chance to hear the Magico Q3s (mated with Macintosh tube gear) and Wilson Sophia 2s (mated with Esoteric gear). The Q3s were awesome. Completely awesome. I heard everything. I mean I heard everything!! Now under most circumstances, I look to hear everything. But in this scenario, the Q3s gave me too much of everything. I really wanted to like the Q3s, but they were mercilessly detailed. At moderate listening volumes, it was too much for my ears to bear. The Sophias were also detailed. However, the Sophias were musical. Instead of critiquing the speakers, the Sophias let me simply enjoy the music. My vote goes to Wilson.

I wonder why, it seems, Wilson's fans need to constantly reaffirm their choice, and bolster their "status". You don't really read many comments like these from Magico owners.

Sanji,
According to Hi-FI news, the Q3 Bass extension goes down to 42Hz. The new XLF, was doing ONLY 60Hz!! The Sasha's would probably not even do 60Hz. Are you sure you actually heard a Q3?? Yes, yes I know you trust your ears, who cares about facts...

[Lildebs888]

Originally Posted by rlacoste

I wonder why, it seems, Wilson's fans need to constantly reaffirm their choice, and bolster their "status". You don't really read many comments like these from Magico owners.

Sanji,
According to Hi-FI news, the Q3 Bass extension goes down to 42Hz. The new XLF, was doing ONLY 60Hz!! The Sasha's would probably not even do 60Hz. Are you sure you actually heard a Q3?? Yes, yes I know you trust your ears, who cares about facts...

Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF Frequency Response: +/-3 dB 19.5 Hz - 33 kHz

Wilson Audio Sasha Frequency Response: +/- 3 dB 20 Hz - 22 kHz Room Avg. Response

[rlacoste]

Originally Posted by Lildebs888

Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF Frequency Response: +/-3 dB 19.5 Hz - 33 kHz

Wilson Audio Sasha Frequency Response: +/- 3 dB 20 Hz - 22 kHz Room Avg. Response

Yes I am sure, but not according to the recent "Hi-Fi news" review of the XLF (Nor JA measurements of the Sasha).

[daveneumann]

Originally Posted by rlacoste

Yes I am sure, but not according to the recent "Hi-Fi news" review of the XLF (Nor JA measurements of the Sasha).

I don't have a dog in this fight re: Magico vs Wilson. Both great speakers in my view and there is no "best", only personal preferences.

However to the question regarding JA's measurements of the Sasha bass, unless I am reading the chart incorrectly, it looks like Figure 4 of JA's measurements indicate a -3db drop at about 35 hz. Wish I knew how to post the chart, but you can check it out on Stereophile's website.

[NoahG]

Fig.4 Wilson Sasha W/P, anechoic response on listening axis at 50", without grille, averaged across 30° horizontal window and corrected for microphone response, with complex sum of nearfield responses plotted below 300Hz.



Q3 Frequency response in Jeff Fritz's(ultraaudio.com) Music Vault listening room smoothed to 1/6th octave.

[sanji]

Originally Posted by rlacoste

I wonder why, it seems, Wilson's fans need to constantly reaffirm their choice, and bolster their "status". You don't really read many comments like these from Magico owners.

Sanji,
According to Hi-FI news, the Q3 Bass extension goes down to 42Hz. The new XLF, was doing ONLY 60Hz!! The Sasha's would probably not even do 60Hz. Are you sure you actually heard a Q3?? Yes, yes I know you trust your ears, who cares about facts...

Yes rlacoste, as a musician and a long time audiophile I do trust my ears first then look at measurements or "facts" according to you. However, it looks like that you've actually gotten your "facts" wrong. If you think that the XLF a $200,000 speaker only goes down to 60Hz then I really don't know what to tell you. Both the Sasha & Sophia 3 go down to 20Hz. According to the Magico website the Q3 goes down to 26Hz. As I said in my post, Magicos have some fantastic attributes such as great imaging, low level detail and dynamics. However, the Q3 does not have the same bass extension as a Sasha or a Sophia 3. You don't need a white paper to realize this and unless you were deaf you will hear it and yes I am making these observations after hearing all 4 speakers mentioned here. To me it, I would not pay $36K (almost $10K more for the Q3's vs the Sashas) and not get the low end extension. This is neither a "reaffirmation of choice" or a "bolstering of status". Both companies make great products & I strongly suggest that you put down the magazines and have a listen for yourself. Perhaps then you may have something valuable to contribute to the forum.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by NoahG

Saw this post on another forum:

"I think Magico has passed Wilson in many ways. Unless Wilson revamps their product line in a big way at CES this year, they will be left behind. Its time for them to push forward and leave their 20 year old tweeter behind."

Randall Smith
Writer for the Soundstage! Network

The tweeter is not a dated 20 years old design. It has been vastly improved over that 20 year time span both in motor structure and cabinet. There is no other tweeter currently available that is more compatible with Wilson designs other than the new soft dome tweeter. Wilson speakers require that the tweeter go low to about 1.2kHz. As I understand it Magico Be tweeters can't go this low.

I auditioned the Sasha very carefully before buying the Maxx. The two speakers are cut from the same cloth. The other brand that was there was the B&W. I though them very fine speakers. They use diamond tweeters possessing great extension. Yet when compared to the Sasha I didn't find Sasha treble any less extended, smooth, or detailed than the various B&W's I listened to.

Finally, how does the Wilson Ti tweeter sound in its current iteration? I can say that I've heard a lot of tweeters over the years. I've never heard a better tweeter. I'm sure that my dealer will eventually carry the Alexia in the showroom. It will be easy to compare the Sasha to the Alexia in due time. I suspect the Alexia will outperform the Sasha equally from bottom to top. I doubt that Alexia will blow Sasha away but will be enough better to justify the higher price. I also doubt that I will conclude that the new tweeter is much better than the Ti tweeter.

[rlacoste]

Originally Posted by sanji

Yes rlacoste, as a musician and a long time audiophile I do trust my ears first then look at measurements or "facts" according to you. However, it looks like that you've actually gotten your "facts" wrong. If you think that the XLF a $200,000 speaker only goes down to 60Hz then I really don't know what to tell you. Both the Sasha & Sophia 3 go down to 20Hz. According to the Magico website the Q3 goes down to 26Hz. As I said in my post, Magicos have some fantastic attributes such as great imaging, low level detail and dynamics. However, the Q3 does not have the same bass extension as a Sasha or a Sophia 3. You don't need a white paper to realize this and unless you were deaf you will hear it and yes I am making these observations after hearing all 4 speakers mentioned here. To me it, I would not pay $36K (almost $10K more for the Q3's vs the Sashas) and not get the low end extension. This is neither a "reaffirmation of choice" or a "bolstering of status". Both companies make great products & I strongly suggest that you put down the magazines and have a listen for yourself. Perhaps then you may have something valuable to contribute to the forum.

Quoted from "Hi-Fi news" Oct 2012:
"Diffraction-corrected near-field measurement showed the bass extension (–6dB re. 200Hz) to be, for such a large speaker, disappointing at 50Hz"
(Sorry, I was generous and said 60Hz, but -6db at 50Hz is even worse). The Q3 under the same conditions were -6db at 42Hz. So if you want to talk about "value", we can start here. I do agree with you, it is unthinkable that a $200K loudspeaker will have such poor bass response.

Sanji, no need to insult anyone. I did hear the XLF, and it is quite obvious, they have NO low bass. "Hi-Fi news" report, confirmed what I heard. The charts above, from NoahG, also support my personal experience with the Sasha. JA measured in MF room the Q5, right against the MAXX. The Q5 went down almost an octave lower (and higher). These are all "facts" regardless of what you, or I, think. You should be able to enjoy your speakers without deceiving yourself that they do things, they clearly don't.

[Cellindo]

Who really cares about these various measurements.? At these very high price tags, the most important is to reach the listening pleasure we are all looking for.... Either you get connected to the music in a close enough way, or not. This is my only decision factor..., as no speaker is perfect. Both Magico and Wilson have their own specific weaknesses. ;-)

Personally, the most "close to perfect" speaker I has the chance to audition is the TAD Ref One (the biggest TAD product to date). But still, I'm certain I could find some limitations if I had the chance to live with them.

[trponhunter]

Originally Posted by sanji

Yes rlacoste, as a musician and a long time audiophile I do trust my ears first then look at measurements or "facts" according to you. However, it looks like that you've actually gotten your "facts" wrong. If you think that the XLF a $200,000 speaker only goes down to 60Hz then I really don't know what to tell you. Both the Sasha & Sophia 3 go down to 20Hz. According to the Magico website the Q3 goes down to 26Hz. As I said in my post, Magicos have some fantastic attributes such as great imaging, low level detail and dynamics. However, the Q3 does not have the same bass extension as a Sasha or a Sophia 3. You don't need a white paper to realize this and unless you were deaf you will hear it and yes I am making these observations after hearing all 4 speakers mentioned here. To me it, I would not pay $36K (almost $10K more for the Q3's vs the Sashas) and not get the low end extension. This is neither a "reaffirmation of choice" or a "bolstering of status". Both companies make great products & I strongly suggest that you put down the magazines and have a listen for yourself. Perhaps then you may have something valuable to contribute to the forum.

Stating a loudspeaker goes down to 20hz because the manufacturer says so is risky at best. There is no possible way that all Wilson speakers (sophia, sasha, MAXX and XLF) all have the same low frequency extension , just because their specs say so. Also, the specs are written differently for different speakers in the line - some are quoted as room averaged, some not -etc...

This isn't just about Wilson, but all speaker manufacturers - many times the specs they quote are quite otimistic.

Also, true low end extension is often confused with "weight", or a bump in mid bass response. Some speakers may have tremendou punch and high volume capabilty- bu this is very different than low end extension.

In the past, I've witnessed measurements of large 18" drivers in top end subwoofers that had very litlle if any true response below 35hz. People just assumed because the manufacturer stated it went to 20hz and that it was a large 18" drvier that it really did - yet when you actually put it through an objective test you saw that what was claimed versus actual performance was very different. Upon further investigation, if you looked at the individual drviers specs you would see that the driver itself was never intended for real low end extension, but rather for weight in the 50hz region.

As far as objective measurements, the best we can hope for would be the measurements from a magazine or reviewer that measures all the different speakers in the same room in the same mannner - Otherwise, the room variable can be quite large.