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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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  #21  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:41 AM
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Art Vandelay Art Vandelay is offline
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Harman's setup treats all equally. First, it is mono and that eliminates a lot of the setup particularities that you refer to. Second, the DUT is strapped to a platform and positioned in the middle of the room for each and every candidate. Nothing is optimized except for sound level.

Thanks for that info.

So the DBT then doesn't attempt to determine listener's preference for a speaker's soundstage capabilities - which is potentially a limitation for those interested in mostly two channel listening.

And it also does still perhaps bias the test in favor of speakers that are designed for on-axis listening, as well as speakers that have a broader beam in the vertical axis, or where the optimum listener's height just so happens to coincide with the conditions of the test setup.

Not that I'm attempting to undermine the methodology but I can see that there's a high probability that there will be a bias in favor of Revel speakers simply because they're engineered to have a smoother response over a wider vertical and horizontal plane than most. An engineering positive of course.

Noting too the very fine review of the F228be in this month's issue of Stereophile.
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:37 AM
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Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
Thanks for that info.
So the DBT then doesn't attempt to determine listener's preference for a speaker's soundstage capabilities - which is potentially a limitation for those interested in mostly two channel listening.
Nope and this has been discussed at length (with contributions from Voecks and Toole) at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html

Quote:
And it also does still perhaps bias the test in favor of speakers that are designed for on-axis listening, as well as speakers that have a broader beam in the vertical axis, or where the optimum listener's height just so happens to coincide with the conditions of the test setup.
Nope. The listener can get up and move around. I did.

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Not that I'm attempting to undermine the methodology but I can see that there's a high probability that there will be a bias in favor of Revel speakers simply because they're engineered to have a smoother response over a wider vertical and horizontal plane than most. An engineering positive of course.
Or the other way around. Revel designs take into account the data derived from these tests of their speakers and those of many others.

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Noting too the very fine review of the F228be in this month's issue of Stereophile.
Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:24 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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One of Revel's primary design goals is smooth/even off-axis response or tightly controlled dispersion if you prefer. In the event, one could conclude that a speaker optimized for on-axis response would have an advantage in a "sweet spot" scenario but in fact, that's not the driving philosophy at Revel, not that on-axis response is ignored.

As an aside, the same goal is valued in the design of many professional JBL products. Smooth off axis response makes setting up large scale systems much easier when trying to optimize such factors as gain before feedback and even room coverage so here's a case where certain near field design goals also can be made to work in the far field.

I'm not suggesting there aren't other approaches to take, but smooth, controlled dispersion is a feature of almost all of Harman's upper tier products, even their horn loaded systems.

I think Harman's double blind rig is done about as well as it can be and provides considerable benefits to those who believe that the design of these things is a mix of art with a liberal dose of science applied.
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Last edited by Pampero; 02-13-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2019, 06:47 AM
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Art Vandelay Art Vandelay is offline
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I think Harman's double blind rig is done about as well as it can be and provides considerable benefits to those who believe that the design of these things is a mix of art with a liberal dose of science applied.
Yep, agreed, if even it is predominantly a marketing ploy.

What matters in the end is the quality of the end product, which ultimately determines success or failure in the market, and in the case of Revel the quality is very high.

Like many I've been hoping that a Ultima3 would be released by now, meeting or exceeding the standard set by the Ultima2 but with a bit more efficiency and a more dynamic and coherent bass. A new look and better fit n' finish wouldn't go astray either.
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2019, 05:56 AM
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Well, after an extensive audition of the F228Be, I remain thoroughly impressed. For me the Holy Grail is transparency and 3D staging without being bright and these speakers have those qualities. I have a pair arriving at the house tomorrow (local dealer) for "in home" audition with intent to buy (provided they "work" in my small listening room).
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2019, 09:48 AM
mtrot mtrot is offline
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Originally Posted by Soundmig View Post
Well, after an extensive audition of the F228Be, I remain thoroughly impressed. For me the Holy Grail is transparency and 3D staging without being bright and these speakers have those qualities. I have a pair arriving at the house tomorrow (local dealer) for "in home" audition with intent to buy (provided they "work" in my small listening room).
Excellent! I hope they work out great for you. Let us know.

Marc T
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:14 PM
Soundmig Soundmig is offline
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Excellent! I hope they work out great for you. Let us know.

Marc T
Will do Marc.
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  #28  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:28 PM
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Soundmig, congrats on the incoming Revel's. Hopefully they will provide you with the sonic bliss you're looking for !
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2019, 06:33 PM
Soundmig Soundmig is offline
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Soundmig, congrats on the incoming Revel's. Hopefully they will provide you with the sonic bliss you're looking for !
Thanks Mikado463, So far so good. The dealer and his wife spent a few hours with me working on speaker positioning and listener position - and so far so good Well enough that I coughed up the $$$ for purchase.
These have been pretty well reviewed so I don't have anything really to add to what has already been said. But.... at the risk of being redundant, they have an uncanny ability to transport you to the recording venue and make you feel like you were/are there.
Still getting a handle on these big boys in a small room (10.5' x 11.5' x 9'), but surprisingly they are working! I'm still trying to decide if the ports will remain open or if the plugs will be used. Most likely they will stay open as these things just sing when they are allowed to breath (especially the chest tones of male vocals and "body" of instruments like bass clarinet and French Horn). The bass is "maybe" a wee bit more tidy with the plugs in - in my small room, but nothing wrong with concert bass drum and pipe organ pedal tones being allowed to "Flow"
Yes, these are great speakers - very happy!!!
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  #30  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:28 PM
marsalis marsalis is offline
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My conclusion was quite different. I bought these speakers for my 2nd, smaller system, after reading Kal review and seeing the measurements (System driven by Vitus Signature Integrated). I was impressed at the beginning, but they fatigue me fairly quick. They are simply too bright to my ears. Violins and trumpets are unbearable (and so are most female voices). The “present” area is impressive at first, but ultimately, for me, unpleasant and not realistic. The BBC curve would have helped here. They also have some sort of a metallic haze that was present at all time. Overall, not a speaker I can live with.
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