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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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  #121  
Old 07-10-2018, 09:46 AM
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Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I would describe that as "not voiced" or neutral.
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  #122  
Old 07-10-2018, 12:35 PM
Rex Anderson Rex Anderson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
I would describe that as "not voiced" or neutral.

Yeah, me too....
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  #123  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:36 PM
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The reviewer of the less expensive Beethovens, I don't remember which adds in summing up Peter gannaster: Designer Peter Gansterer has nipped and tucked with surgical precision to produce an outstandingly musical loudspeaker for a very reasonable price.
and later..
I'll take Gansterer's carefully crafted compromises over a speaker that can play louder and perhaps faster, but fails to deliver the near-full-range tonal and harmonic satisfaction consistently served up by the Beethoven Concert Grand.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/...w3zsyqvDdkV.99
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  #124  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:01 PM
Rex Anderson Rex Anderson is offline
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When I look at the frequency response of the Vienna Acoustics speakers, I'm left wondering how one could find Gansterer's speakers to sound musical. The response of the VA Beethoven varies 8 dB from 70 to 400 Hz and 10 dB between 1 kHz and 10k Hz. The chart looks like the Grand Canyon. The only area of smooth response is between 500-1,000 Hz.

I think the reviewer needs to calibrate his reference i.e listen to some speakers with flat on and off axis response or have his hearing checked. For the same price, you can get a pair of Revel Performa3 F208s that measure way better.

Sorry, you are posting in the Revel thread.

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 07-13-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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  #125  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:08 AM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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'Musical's' good and to be preferred over unpleasant, but I prefer the recording to be the source of "musicality." I've always felt the equipment should (to the extent possible) not be the point at which tonality is defined. Of course all speakers overlay their qualities onto program to a lesser or greater extent but if everything else is equal I'll take lesser influence if I have a choice. Flat response should be one of the primary goals of all reference grade equipment.

The very notion of voicing suggests that a defined goal can be identified and created. If that's the case, why not just shoot for truth (accuracy) in the first place? Perhaps there are times when a given tailored curve can be more pleasant than a technically "better" response, but there will be as many or more times when it isn't. I don't want the designer defining what I should hear. I prefer that to be the program material itself.
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Last edited by Pampero; 07-13-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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  #126  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:16 AM
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You're right Rex, and I voted with my wallet my last 3 pair of speakers since selling those beethovens on order Revel F52, Salon1, and Salon2! When I find a pair of speakers that make my 70's aerosmith cd's pressed in the 80's sound musical I get excited, my money, no harm, no foul as long as they stock replacement tweeters i'm in.

Streaming and digital music reproduction has improved so much since the 80's that I don't need 'soft' or conservative or british whatever, speakers or tube amps to smooth over the nails on a chalkboard redbook sound anymore.
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  #127  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
If you've followed my adventures, and really why would you, but if you have....
then you know that I bought a pair of Performa3 F208s while I waited what ended up being 10 weeks for delivery of my Salon2s. Rather than repeat myself endlessly as my wife says I do in real life, you can read Pio's I'm Discovering Revel: WOW thread HERE or my thread of initial impressions HERE Or, read Erick Lichte's glowing review of the F208 HERE.
So no long review of the F208 except to say that from first listen I was taken by their sound. They have a quality I hope for in all important things in life, balance. But they are also euphonic, sweet when the music is and listenable when it isn't. They are very well constructed and easy to look at without the Bauhaus styling some people love but I find too often results in a pair of Daleks in your living room.

I suspect the 208s are easily driven by any good amplifier and they were easy to set up in my room. I didn't think, "I wish the Salons were here." Well, maybe a just a little out of curiosity. Mostly I wondered, my wife wondered, and all my friends wondered why I felt any desire to want more than the Performas offered. Clearly they are not audiots. Although, the 208s were so satisfying that they damped some of my anticipation for the Salons. My wife didn't actually say it in so many words but I knew she thought I was being acquisitive and should just save some money. I had to defend myself from her subtle interrogations in between raving about the 208s so I stopped talking about them to her. Now you might think that could be awkward but after 35 years together you can do stuff that wouldn't occur to you on the second date. Regardless and for any value it has, my highest recommendation if the 208s are in your budget. I would keep 'em, if I had a sensible place to put them.

The Salon 2s arrived yesterday. Lindy helped me unpack them, which wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. They were consecutively numbered (I checked!) and are solid as a rock. Mine are impeccably finished in mahogany although a complaint that's been noted elsewhere is that the trap door won't close over banana plugs. It wouldn't be annoying if I could figure out how to get the covers off, but I don't want to break them. The easiest solution is to switch to spade lugs so I will be re-terminating my cables with spades. Then I can use the doors and everything will be tidy.

I started by putting them where the 208s had worked so well for me in my 3300cf room. I fired up the McStuff, sat down and felt a twinge of disappointment. Were these that much better than the 208s? Were they even as good? My first hour with the Salons had me feeling unsure. I moved them a bit forward, a bit back and settled more or less where I'd started from. Then I stopped futzing around and began to listen. An hour passed. Then two. Alison Krauss and Union Station Live, Telemann Tafelmusik (Erato), Joni Mitchell (Blue), Traffic (Low Spark of High Heeled Boys), Dixie Chicks (I'm on a DC kick lately), Rachmaninoff (Symphony No. 2, Telarc). The Salons started to reveal themselves as we got to know each other. It becomes clear that these are like the 208s or more properly, the 208s are like the Salons. Yet the Salon 2 exists at an elevated level. There's more of everything I liked about the 208s. More clean low end for instance. They improve on the F208's strengths of articulation with a sweet, clear but easy HF presentation. This is an area of obvious superiority. The soundstage and imaging are enveloping yet focused coupled with a midrange transparency and smoothness that could not get or need to get much better for my tastes. All this happens without hype or any "gee whiz, look at me" gymnastics. Good recordings are deep and detailed but not etched. Close your eyes and the speakers do the magic act as they disappear. You are being washed by humanity's musical genius right in your house. It's a luxurious and sensual experience. You know the routine.

After dinner we watched Bill Maher, then started spinning silver platters, our only source at the moment. My wife, (the former skeptic) said: "They are better. I can hear deep into the music." Nobody taught her to say that, she doesn't read the magazines, hang on forums or use audiophile terms. Then she said "there's so much space around each musical part. Everything sounds easy, like I could play those parts because I can hear deep into every line." Then the magic: "You were right." Ah baby! Say it again! The Revels do this without dissecting the music.

Lindy's a lifelong guitar player, taught my girls to play and even motivated me to pick up the guitar again, although mine is a Sisyphean effort. But Lindy is a skilled player, pitch and tone sensitive and has taught all of us about "flat and sharp" and the qualities that make for a fine voice and a great singer so her input is especially valued in that way. Speaking of voices, the Salons yet again bring the euphonic qualities of the F208 to a higher point. Harmonies are heard in all two, three , four or more parts with equal ease yet the blend is unified. Dobro, piano, acoustic guitars (electric too), mandolins, violins, steel pedal, plucked acoustic bass, cymbals (especially cymbals!) guitar effects, reverb tails, all that you want to hear, sounds the way you remember them to be, the way you've heard them in studio or in situ and the way you hear the Martins when the ladies play at home. Better actually! And certainly better than most amplified live music you hear out unless you're lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time. And let me put in a plug for Nashville here. They are into it here. Don't judge the place by Broadway but of that, maybe later.

So what's the bottom line? They are both great speakers. I expected the Salons to be exceptional so in some ways the 208s were the bigger surprise. So much so that as I said, it took a little adjustment for me to grok the Salons after living with the 208s for a few weeks. But once I got it, I got it. As Dylan said, "They ain't goin' nowhere."

Postscript: I ran some test tones today and did some crude measuring with my SPL meter and ancient IVIE RTA (remember them?) using a few of my test CDs and the Ivie noise generator. The Salons themselves are (within the limits of my instruments' abilities to discriminate) very closely matched as best I can tell. However, there is more FR variation in room than I expected just from listening. My instrumentation capabilities are crude by today's standards and my efforts were just snapshots really, but I can see there is room for improvement. I'll start by doing what I always do, pushing them around a little. Honestly, I'm somewhat sorry I bothered because as it stands, they're already really delicious. But you know very well it's not a hobby unless you're being goofy and obsessive about it. I really hoped that wouldn't be the case this time, but it seems to be. Yet we should face it. Two dB down at 5kHz is the very definition of a first world problem.
I'm well past being able to afford Salon 2s, but reading your take on them reminds me of the time I heard the F208s at Hi-Fi Buys. Incredibly easy to listen to, musical, and they reminded me very much of my Mirage M-3si speakers. Kevin Voecks was at Mirage before Revel. I wonder if that's a factor in what you hear from your Revels.
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