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Shindo Labs Sound Create Producer

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Old 05-11-2014, 04:30 PM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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Default Understanding Shindo

Hey guys,

I thought I would share this very eloquent quote from an ongoing blog "truefi" about a Shindo based system in Europe. The title is "incredibly close to the music." Maybe this thread can become a place to talk about getting the most from a Shindo chain and discussing the philosophies of Shindo the Sound Create Producer.

" Today I want to report about a system, were the amplifying chain is completely relying to the qualities of one of the most important tube amplifier designers of our time, the shortly passed away Ken Shindo. Tube electronics of this master are designed as single components in technical terms, but their major effect will be shown when matched together to a chain. A tremendous advantage above the most other tube components is their complementary characteristic of higher order of musicality within this match. A chain of amplifying devices (transformers, components, tubes, cables and their technical principles together with mechanical details) create additional physical abilities and psychoacoustical effects. Here the summary of harmonies, dynamic details and musicality in general make a completely different reception of music possible. Every audio chain does, with tube components it appears in a advanced stage, but only a handful designers do take care about the importance of matching effects. Ken Shindo was one of the few, who was able to create sound systems, which have the ability to keep the inherent structure of music in a comprehensible flow. Almost close to the listening at natural instruments, his amplifiers make this sort of listening ease to one main sensation and criteria, independent of its technical implementation."

Jonathan
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:39 PM
KenSea KenSea is offline
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Thank you Jonathan, a great post indeed


QUOTE=Vinyljh;606103]Hey guys,

I thought I would share this very eloquent quote from an ongoing blog "truefi" about a Shindo based system in Europe. The title is "incredibly close to the music." Maybe this thread can become a place to talk about getting the most from a Shindo chain and discussing the philosophies of Shindo the Sound Create Producer.

" Today I want to report about a system, were the amplifying chain is completely relying to the qualities of one of the most important tube amplifier designers of our time, the shortly passed away Ken Shindo. Tube electronics of this master are designed as single components in technical terms, but their major effect will be shown when matched together to a chain. A tremendous advantage above the most other tube components is their complementary characteristic of higher order of musicality within this match. A chain of amplifying devices (transformers, components, tubes, cables and their technical principles together with mechanical details) create additional physical abilities and psychoacoustical effects. Here the summary of harmonies, dynamic details and musicality in general make a completely different reception of music possible. Every audio chain does, with tube components it appears in a advanced stage, but only a handful designers do take care about the importance of matching effects. Ken Shindo was one of the few, who was able to create sound systems, which have the ability to keep the inherent structure of music in a comprehensible flow. Almost close to the listening at natural instruments, his amplifiers make this sort of listening ease to one main sensation and criteria, independent of its technical implementation."

Jonathan[/QUOTE]
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:42 PM
kev313 kev313 is offline
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This sounds like a good idea for a thread. Once I get over my forum fatigue from that last episode, I look forward to posting my impressions of my nine years with Shindo in various systems with many types of speakers. Despite conspiracy claims to the contrary, I think there could be some useful information in that.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:58 PM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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Great, looking forward to that. Hopefully Dan and Ivan will help keep this focused and on topic so we can share positive notes and real, factual info.

I'll add a topic regarding matching of speakers. Just google "reflected impedance in transformers" which will bring up some info on why speaker impedance matching is important. Its not a cut and dried formula and some exceptions exist. The main point is using low impedance speakers on amplifiers tapped for 8-16ohm speakers can result in bad sound (boomy bass and/or rolled off highs) burned output tubes, or in a worst case scenario, blown output transformers. I have a melted/burned transformer on my workbench as proof.

Shindo always designed amplifiers in the context of a system approach as the quote above explains. Every part of the chain is important.

The basic ingredients for a properly matched speaker is:
1) high efficiency- real, not marketing manipulated specs.
2) high impedance. Ideally 16ohms, 8ohms is just fine and in a few rare cases 4ohms such as 1940's Western Electric drivers in the 7 series. 755A being the most well known.
3) Low moving mass. Generally light paper cones. Stiff suspensions on the woofers without floppy rubber surrounds.

The 4ohm exceptions, I believe, come from the fact that the efficiency is high and mass low which offsets the impedance mismatch. Thats a bit of a hypothesis.

More later.

Jonathan
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:23 PM
NeilNZ NeilNZ is offline
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This is a great idea for a thread. Clarity to wash away the mud of forum speculation.
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:50 PM
Freestone Freestone is offline
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I also think the varieties of amps is worth discussing. There are so many flavors it would be useful to know why - and the subtleties between them. Preamps are much easier to understand.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestone View Post
I also think the varieties of amps is worth discussing. There are so many flavors it would be useful to know why - and the subtleties between them. Preamps are much easier to understand.

I'm interested in these amp varieties and subtleties as well, I have a speaker that will be friendly with each of them. The Cortese rocks them for sure. Matt advised me that upgrading to the Petite Latour would be a major step in being able to enjoy all that these other amps have to contribute. DYquems, 300b, GM70. Haute Brion. These are the main four I'd like to hear. Maybe the 300bs last.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:56 PM
KenSea KenSea is offline
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I think this thread should stay at the top for everyone to read.

Last edited by KenSea; 05-12-2014 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSea View Post
I think this thread should stay at the top for to read.
Just made it a sticky
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:20 PM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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Thanks, Ivan and Kensea.

This week I am very busy so can not add much. I'll come back to it and we can expand the knowledge base.

As for amp flavors, this is a really tough one for me. Whichever amp is in my system sucks me into the music. I have a hard time really explaining the differences between magical and magical. In my retail days, I could explain the sound of half the amps in the market. With Shindo, its just a different thing. I find myself talking in circles while trying to convey what I hear. I can't tell you how many times I emailed Matt or Keith Aschenbrenner just after swapping amps, writing "this is the one, why has it ever been out of my system" only to repeat this statement a month later.

An interesting point- most Japanese customers and many European customers I'm aware of, do not change amps for decades. The focus is generally on optimization. The room and the set up. Once things hit a level, they just enjoy. Every once in awhile the equipment is serviced and adjusted. I'm pretty sure most systems out there are not anywhere near their full potential. The room being the biggest obstacle and the hardest to handle.

Jonathan
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