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  #71  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:27 AM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Jerome, I understand. It is difficult to get Shindo to sing properly. Just because a speaker makes sound, doesn't mean the gear driving it is giving it its best. There used to be a time when speakers were ultra-efficient and impedance friendly for what was the amplification of choice, the only choice... tubes.

That was before transistors were invented. These days speaker manufacturers pay much less attention to the efficiency and impedance that often swings wildly. Who cares about the speaker specs when any deficiency can be overcome with power! Power is cheap, especially now with digital switching amps, class D. Except that it takes many bandaids to cure the multitude of sonic deficiencies to make a SS amp sound great or at least tolerable. Sterile, grainy, lean, thin, etc..... sure, throw enough negative feedback into an amp to make it behave and it will measure better but.... what about the sound???

Fortunately we live in times where many manufacturers are able to make us more or less happy with their designs. It was much easier to make a tube amp back in the day that sounded good because of the inherent advantages of tubes, soft clipping, even order harmonics (depending on topology of course) but they were limited in resolution and "air" as well as "bandwidth" because some of the vintage parts were not up to par to today's standards (some vintage parts are actually quite good sounding). Today we have even better tube amps but we hardly have speakers that mate well anymore with the inherent limitations of tube designs!

When we consider SET amps, I'll quickly quote wikipedia, "SET amplifiers typically show poor measurements for distortion with a resistive load, have low output power, are inefficient, have poor damping factors and high measured harmonic distortion. But they perform somewhat better in dynamic and impulse response. Also, SET-amplifiers allegedly (there is little agreement on this) sound good at low power levels without the perceived need for higher sound levels like transistor amplifiers allegedly do".

We quickly realise that we need proper partnering speakers. Not many out there, are there?

Of course the Shindo amps will sound different as well, the fundamentals of Push-Pull vs Single Ended Triode are a bit different too. Different tubes have different flavor as well.

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that going the low powered route, it takes some effort to put together a system that will do all the components justice. It is a more challenging path and well worth it to some and not so much to others. To each his own.

I think you already came to that conclusion when you experimented with VERDIER triode amps. They made sound come out of your PMC speakers but you didn't fall in love... It will not be any different with Shindo! While Shindo may be magical, it doesn't have the kind of magic to overcome simple laws of physics and electrical theory. The McIntosh MC2301s are designed to work well with just about any speaker and have the guts to do it too.
Serge : very good post ! It summarizes perfectly the dilemma for many owners of "conventionnal" speakers who would like to try Shindo or other low power designs.
I actually felt in love with the Verdier 845 Triode Spirit monoblocks. Beautifully made and sounding magical. I was about to buy them when I realized than all singers looked like 10 or 20 years younger with voices a tone higher than usual and I can say than their true tone because I listened to them in concerts.
Music alone was wonderful. But I could not accept this limitation for voices and you, Cyril and others pointed out the fact that it was probably a mismatch of impedance.
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  #72  
Old 08-09-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sibelius View Post
... It also appears that at least in the US Shindo has stopped going to trade shows. I was kind of disappointed that Pitch Perfect was not at the last two California Audio Shows given that the shows were essentially in Matt's back yard. I understand that hotel suites are not the best environment to show off gear but still would have been nice to see and talk to Matt and other Shindo owners and hear about potential new products coming down the pike.

Again, thanks for the reminder on Jeff and Jules. My memory is not as good as it once was.
Sorry to disappoint. I had received many inquires whether or not I was doing the Cal Audio Show, and my thoughts are that...
(1) With all due respect to the promoters of this and other shows it is a large investment for little return, in my eyes.
(2) Since I have a showroom in the city, lugging all my stuff to a local hotel, and guaranteeing only mediocre sound (relatively speaking) is not my idea of a good time.
(3) True about meeting folks, though, but this brings me to #4...
(4) If anyone wants to visit me anytime, and they are in CA/SF/East Bay Area, by all means give me a call and swing by. You don't need a show to do it, as I'm always happy to shoot the breeze and spin some music. Sibelius, if you wanted to swing by and hear a few more things, c'mon down..

It's only a matter of locking in a day/time when I am @ the shop..

I will be having a get together soon, btw, so stay tuned...

Best,
-M
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  #73  
Old 08-09-2011, 03:42 PM
sibelius sibelius is offline
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Originally Posted by pitchperfect View Post
Sorry to disappoint. I had received many inquires whether or not I was doing the Cal Audio Show, and my thoughts are that...
(1) With all due respect to the promoters of this and other shows it is a large investment for little return, in my eyes.
(2) Since I have a showroom in the city, lugging all my stuff to a local hotel, and guaranteeing only mediocre sound (relatively speaking) is not my idea of a good time.
(3) True about meeting folks, though, but this brings me to #4...
(4) If anyone wants to visit me anytime, and they are in CA/SF/East Bay Area, by all means give me a call and swing by. You don't need a show to do it, as I'm always happy to shoot the breeze and spin some music. Sibelius, if you wanted to swing by and hear a few more things, c'mon down..

It's only a matter of locking in a day/time when I am @ the shop..

I will be having a get together soon, btw, so stay tuned...

Best,
-M
Hey Matt:

Thanks for responding. Just sent you a PM.

Scott
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Speakers: Tonian classic 12 (PHY driver) and Hawthorn Audio Trios (Open Baffle). Analog Source: Nottingham Ana-log, Garrard 301. Tonearms: SME 312S, SME M2-12R, Nottingham Unipivot. Cartridge: Koetsu Onyx, Lyra Helikon Mono, Ortofon SPU Classic. Digital Source: Eastern Electric Dac +. Electronics: Shindo Vosne Romane Preamp, 45,2A3,300B,F2a,GM70 SET amps, Atma-sphere S30 OTL, Dynaco ST-70, Shindo Haut-Brion
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  #74  
Old 08-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by omodo View Post
I am also curious about the Corton-Charlemagne EL34 amps, and have been unsuccessfully trying to find any reviews or owner experiences, in particular to determine whether it or the Cortese would be most suited to an Altec 604 based setup (or if I should stick with my Montille EL84).

Due to my location it's also very hard to demo or hear either amp in my system, so I share you frustrations Jerome.
Hi Omodo,

The Corton Charlemagne EL34 amps are outstanding on the 604's. It's one of my very favorite combo's, besides the Cortese F2a. They are a beautiful blend of power and clarity into the performance - especially those that want to experience the awesome tone of the EL34 tube through efficient speakers, like the 604. In Shindo's circuit, he really maximizes the EL34 abilities. They are not a warm and fuzzy experience like a vintage marantz 8b, just for an example. They are extened and open, yet retain the EL34's beautiful textural qualities. As well, they have a drive and momentum to the sound that is really addictive.



-M

Last edited by pitchperfect; 08-11-2011 at 12:38 PM. Reason: typo
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  #75  
Old 08-11-2011, 12:57 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Matt, when you have some time, perhaps you could share with us some of your experience with the various Shindo gear and speakers, (Shindo and others) as well as your preferences and favorites. Your idea on what constitutes a well balanced system, the different topologies and tube variations, etc, some of your favorites from the past experience of setting up Shindo systems for your clients, etc.. It doesn't have to be all in one post. Perhaps "Matt's weekly blog" here on AA.
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  #76  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:32 PM
sibelius sibelius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Matt, when you have some time, perhaps you could share with us some of your experience with the various Shindo gear and speakers, (Shindo and others) as well as your preferences and favorites. Your idea on what constitutes a well balanced system, the different topologies and tube variations, etc, some of your favorites from the past experience of setting up Shindo systems for your clients, etc.. It doesn't have to be all in one post. Perhaps "Matt's weekly blog" here on AA.
Agree with PHC1. Very few people have the experience with Shindo in the US that Matt and Jonathan do. As time permits any Shindo "nuggets" Matt would like to share would be appreciated.
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Speakers: Tonian classic 12 (PHY driver) and Hawthorn Audio Trios (Open Baffle). Analog Source: Nottingham Ana-log, Garrard 301. Tonearms: SME 312S, SME M2-12R, Nottingham Unipivot. Cartridge: Koetsu Onyx, Lyra Helikon Mono, Ortofon SPU Classic. Digital Source: Eastern Electric Dac +. Electronics: Shindo Vosne Romane Preamp, 45,2A3,300B,F2a,GM70 SET amps, Atma-sphere S30 OTL, Dynaco ST-70, Shindo Haut-Brion
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  #77  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibelius

Agree with PHC1. Very few people have the experience with Shindo in the US that Matt and Jonathan do. As time permits any Shindo "nuggets" Matt would like to share would be appreciated.
+1...

Dave

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  #78  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:31 PM
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+1...

Dave

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+2. I will tune in every week.
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  #79  
Old 08-11-2011, 04:00 PM
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is +3 going overboard
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  #80  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:05 PM
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I like your style Jeff... This thread isn't boring because you tell it the way it is.
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