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Power Conditioners Voltage regulation to AC Regeneration

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  #121  
Old 06-24-2017, 01:16 PM
cleeds cleeds is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ths61 View Post
... There is a 240volt/30amp breaker in the service panel and separate 120 volt 10 and 20 amp breakers in the Equi=Tech. From the calculations above, the breakers in the Equi=Tech would appear to trip before the breaker in the service panel ... [/IMG]
Not necessarily, and that was my point. If you're connected to a 240VAC 30A circuit, there's no way to simultaneously fully power two 120V 20A circuits - to say nothing of yet another single 120V 10 amp circuit. (And remember, there is some inherent loss of power in the Equi-Tech transformer itself, because of heat.) That's why the design of the Equi-Tech just doesn't make sense to me.
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Last edited by cleeds; 06-24-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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  #122  
Old 06-24-2017, 01:59 PM
ths61 ths61 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeds View Post
Not necessarily, and that was my point. If you're connected to a 240VAC 30A circuit, there's no way to simultaneously fully power two 120V 20A circuits - to say nothing of yet another single 120V 10 amp circuit. (And remember, there is some inherent loss of power in the Equi-Tech transformer itself, because of heat.) That's why the design of the Equi-Tech just doesn't make sense to me.
2 * 20 amp 120 volt circuits is only 4,800 watts or only 2/3rds of the 7,200 watt potential provided by the 240 volts, 30 amp input.

A simpler way to look at this is, a 2-phase 240 volt 30 amp circuit is actually TWO * 120 volt 30 amp circuits (each leg of the 2-phase circuit is a single phase 120 volt 30 amp circuit). Since 2 * 120 volt @ 30 amps has 1/3rd more current potential than 2 * 120 volt @ 20 amps, your statement above does NOT make sense (unless there is over 1/3rd loss).

Cleed, please show me where the MATH does NOT work. If you notice, there is already 1,200 watts of room provided for "inherent loss" of all 3 combined circuits.

Here are the calculations again:

amps * volts = watts

240 volts * 30 amps = 7,200 watts (maximum input into the isolation transformer)

120 volts * 20 amps * 2 = 4,800 watts (maximum outputs 1 & 2)
120 volts * 10 amps = 1,200 watts (maximum output 3)

(4,800 + 1,200 watts) = 6,000 watts < 7,200 watts (Note: 3 * 120 volts * 20 amps = 7,200 watts, but Equi=Tech probably designed in a safety margin)

Last edited by ths61; 06-24-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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  #123  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:12 PM
cleeds cleeds is online now
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Nope, you're correct! I plead "brain-freeze" and am amazed I didn't understand this from the get-go. You are absolutely correct.

<hanging head in shame.>
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  #124  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:41 PM
ths61 ths61 is offline
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TRANSFORMER EFFICIENCY:

According to this article, "Transformers are the most highly efficient electrical devices. Most of the transformers have full load efficiency between 95% to 98.5% ."

5% of 7,200 watts is 360 watts. The Equi=Tech unit discussed above has left 1,200 watts room between input and output specs which is an 18.2% margin.

http://www.electricaleasy.com/2014/0...fficiency.html
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  #125  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:47 PM
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My dealer convinced me to sell my Isoclean 3030G II and SuperFocus in/out cables along with the Isoclean 6 position power bar -- replacing it with Ansuz Mainz grounding bar (8D)and a Ansuz Mainz Ceramic power cable. Ordered.

Best,

Bob
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  #126  
Old 06-25-2017, 09:34 PM
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Default Power conditioner/Amps

Mono blocks fed through Audioquest 7000 from dedicated 20 amp. line. All other equipment goes to the 7000.
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  #127  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:28 PM
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  #128  
Old 06-30-2017, 06:58 AM
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My BAT VK-600SE is plugged into the IsoTek Sigmas... No dynamic loss, everything sounds better and this way I've got surge protection too!
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  #129  
Old 06-30-2017, 07:54 AM
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Running my entire system via a Shunyata Denali 6000T. Prior to this, I had a running springs Jaco and Duke. In both cases preferred the amps though the conditioner vs straight to wall.
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  #130  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:19 AM
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I am a firm believer in power conditioners. I learned the hard way trying to keep our computer network at the office running without "glitches."
However, I only use "Double Conversion" power conditioners. A Double Conversion (aka Dual Conversion) unit takes the A/C from the wall outlet, converts that to D/C and then charges the battery array. Then, it takes the D/C from the battery array and converts that to regulated pure sine wave power.
Most power conditioners (unless they specifically say Double Conversion or Dual Conversion) are "Line Interactive" units. A line interactive unit runs its output from the A/C from the wall outlet until it senses a problem with the incoming A/C power. Then it switches to the backup battery to provide power. There is always some time delay in this switch over process (perhaps microseconds, or milliseconds, but still a delay). Switching power supplies (commonly found in computers, or computer based units) can be VERY sensitive to ANY switch over time, no matter how short.
Most high end audio units do not use switching power supplies, but use the "old fashioned" power supplies with big transformers and big capacitors. These are not typically sensitive to switch over time delays. But, a lot of digital components are computer based, and use switching power supplies.
Even though my McIntosh power amps all have big (read that HEAVY) power transformers, and capacitors big enough to electrocute someone, I still plug my power amps (and all components) into dual conversion power conditioners. With the power conditioner making highly regulated sine wave power, I know the power going into the amp is cleaner than the local utility power.
There are power conditioners that treat the a/c before they send it to the components. But, many of these do not have battery backup. Even the ones with battery backup have to switch to the battery in case of power failure (thus creating the switch over timing problem). On the Gulf Coast we have a lot of storms coming in, especially in the summer. Even a good windstorm can blow a tree down over power lines, causing power interruption. Some components loose their settings if power is lost. So, then one must go back through the setup process on these units. Battery sourced power is the only way I have found to avoid this process.
The only downside to Double Conversion power conditioners is cost. A 2,000VA unit will be about $2,000 new. A 3,000VA unit will be about $3,000. Used, refurbished, units can be found for about half these amounts.
The biggest problem with used/refurbished units, is that they are typically older technology, many of them only 70% efficient. So, a 2,000VA unit may only deliver 1,400 usable watts. Even newer units typically do not exceed 90% efficiency.
Another problem is cooling fans. Since Dual Conversion power supplies are really industrial units, they do not worry about fan noise. At home, I have the power conditioner for the Audio System in the Attic. The power conditioner for the Video system is in a cabinet with closed doors. At the office, it is in a closet. When I tried to mount the power conditioner in the same rack as the audio units, the fan noise got in the way.
I try to get units with enough power to everything can plug into the unit. Otherwise, different components may have a different path to ground - raising ground loop hum difficulties. If the problem is with digital source units, the problem can be solved with toslink connections. But otherwise different paths to ground (at least with unbalanced connections) can create ground loop problems.
But - at the risk of repeating myself - my real reason for using double conversion power conditioners is that it generates highly regulated pure sine wave A/C.
As someone said earlier in this thread - the best components deserve to be fed the best power.
Or as I read 30 years ago (when everything was analog) "when you listen to your power amp, remember you are not listening to the original signal - you are listening to what comes out of your power supply as modified by that original signal."
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