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  #21  
Old 03-05-2019, 01:36 PM
essrand essrand is offline
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Any M12 users please chime in.
I don't believe in DACs with volume control they have never worked for me, but the M12 is supposed to be a "proper" active preamp.

How good is the M12 preamp functionality compared to a high-end standalone preamp unit that costs around 10k $, is it comparable in performance?

Or should I go for a M1SE and a standalone preamp?
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:05 PM
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I did not have a $10K pre-amp to compare with, but the M12 is a silent pre-amp, and does not add color, nor shape sound (other than the DAC filters). These are the qualities I want in a pre-amp. The M12 is easily as good a pre-amp as the Wyred4Sound STP-SE (fully upgraded) was in my system.

Functionality wise, the M12 has 2x SPDIF inputs, USB input, built in ethernet streaming, and both a single end, and balanced analog input. This is enough to allow me listen to streaming, both digital, and analog video, and balanced input from my phono pre.

If you want a euphonic pre-amp, or need more analog inputs, you will need to look elsewhere.
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-Michael-

Mancave Analog - Technics SL-1200G / K&K Audio Maxxed Phono Amp (Zu DL-103 / Benz Glider-SL / Denon DL-301 II)
Mancave - Bricasti M12 + McIntosh MC60s + ZuAudio Druid V / ZuAudio Undertone.
Headphone - Blue Hawaii Special Edition + Voce
Office - PC/Holo Audio Kitsune Tuned Level 3+Violectric HPA V281+Focal Utopia
Beach Laptop/DragonFly Red+MrSpeakers Ether
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2019, 07:36 AM
essrand essrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
I did not have a $10K pre-amp to compare with, but the M12 is a silent pre-amp, and does not add color, nor shape sound (other than the DAC filters). These are the qualities I want in a pre-amp. The M12 is easily as good a pre-amp as the Wyred4Sound STP-SE (fully upgraded) was in my system.

Functionality wise, the M12 has 2x SPDIF inputs, USB input, built in ethernet streaming, and both a single end, and balanced analog input. This is enough to allow me listen to streaming, both digital, and analog video, and balanced input from my phono pre.

If you want a euphonic pre-amp, or need more analog inputs, you will need to look elsewhere.
I am not looking for something euphonic or more analog inputs, but am looking for the M12 to be competent active preamp unlike most DACs with volume control that suck as a preamp or most lower-end preamps that do great job in volume control and preserving the lower end and musicality but lose the transparency.

Sorry, the 10k preamp mention was unnecessary.
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  #24  
Old 03-31-2019, 02:28 PM
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Bones13 Bones13 is offline
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As I understand it (quite possibly incorrectly) the "gain control" is a resistor ladder system placed at the end of the DAC I/V stage. I saw not mention of an active pre-amp on the website, but that might be what the I/V stage provides. Here is their description from the manual (available on the Bricasti site)

Copied and pasted:

On the left and right sides of the rear you will find the analog inputs and outputs. The lower sets of
connectors are the analog outputs, upper the analog inputs. Both channels are independently powered by
their own linear power supply insuring clean double regulated low ripple power and isolation from any
digital noise from the digital supply.

There are 2 PCBs in each analog section of the M12, layered on top of the other. The top one provides the
analog inputs, pure analog DSD conversion and the R2R ladder resistor level control yielding a pure analog
path when using the M12 as an analog line stage, the signal then passes to the output buffer and connectors
on the lower board. There are 2 inputs, one balanced and one unbalanced and are selected from the front
panel input control.

The lower board contains the PCM dac, clocking and analog output buffers. Each channel’s digital section
has its own Analog Devices 1955 DAC used for PCM conversion, it is coupled with a dedicated DDS
clocking circuit located millimeters away from the DAC, assuring extremely low jitter and minimal trace
length for the clock signal and precise clock synchronization of the left and right boards is handled by the
Sharc DSP on the main digital processing board.

The next stage after conversion is the current to voltage stage which creates the analog wave form, and this
is followed by an analog filter section. This is a fully differential analog design with fast high slew rate
analog operational amps.
At this hi gain stage is where the R2R resistor ladder for level control is inserted
for the analog gain control. This is followed by discreet 2 transistor designed output buffer sections,
balanced and unbalanced, each separately buffered and isolated. The balanced output level will reach a
maximum of +16.5 dbm and the unbalanced of 8dbm with the front panel controlled analog attenuator set
at full scale of +8 dB.

I hope that helps. I do love mine
__________________
-Michael-

Mancave Analog - Technics SL-1200G / K&K Audio Maxxed Phono Amp (Zu DL-103 / Benz Glider-SL / Denon DL-301 II)
Mancave - Bricasti M12 + McIntosh MC60s + ZuAudio Druid V / ZuAudio Undertone.
Headphone - Blue Hawaii Special Edition + Voce
Office - PC/Holo Audio Kitsune Tuned Level 3+Violectric HPA V281+Focal Utopia
Beach Laptop/DragonFly Red+MrSpeakers Ether
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:37 AM
essrand essrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
As I understand it (quite possibly incorrectly) the "gain control" is a resistor ladder system placed at the end of the DAC I/V stage. I saw not mention of an active pre-amp on the website, but that might be what the I/V stage provides. Here is their description from the manual (available on the Bricasti site)

Copied and pasted:

On the left and right sides of the rear you will find the analog inputs and outputs. The lower sets of
connectors are the analog outputs, upper the analog inputs. Both channels are independently powered by
their own linear power supply insuring clean double regulated low ripple power and isolation from any
digital noise from the digital supply.

There are 2 PCBs in each analog section of the M12, layered on top of the other. The top one provides the
analog inputs, pure analog DSD conversion and the R2R ladder resistor level control yielding a pure analog
path when using the M12 as an analog line stage, the signal then passes to the output buffer and connectors
on the lower board. There are 2 inputs, one balanced and one unbalanced and are selected from the front
panel input control.

The lower board contains the PCM dac, clocking and analog output buffers. Each channel’s digital section
has its own Analog Devices 1955 DAC used for PCM conversion, it is coupled with a dedicated DDS
clocking circuit located millimeters away from the DAC, assuring extremely low jitter and minimal trace
length for the clock signal and precise clock synchronization of the left and right boards is handled by the
Sharc DSP on the main digital processing board.

The next stage after conversion is the current to voltage stage which creates the analog wave form, and this
is followed by an analog filter section. This is a fully differential analog design with fast high slew rate
analog operational amps.
At this hi gain stage is where the R2R resistor ladder for level control is inserted
for the analog gain control. This is followed by discreet 2 transistor designed output buffer sections,
balanced and unbalanced, each separately buffered and isolated. The balanced output level will reach a
maximum of +16.5 dbm and the unbalanced of 8dbm with the front panel controlled analog attenuator set
at full scale of +8 dB.

I hope that helps. I do love mine
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I bought one last week. It should get to me in a week or so, will let you know how it works out !
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2019, 10:10 PM
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Bones13 Bones13 is offline
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Have fun! I was truly startled at how detailed, and immediate the sound was. Very simple to get going. There are a few filter choices, and some decisions on how your files are getting to the streamer. I thought it was much easier than setting up a PC>microRendu>DAC.

Of course, I changed a lot in my system, all at once, and that is always problematic. Happy I am though. I hope it works as well for you.

Now, it would not hurt my feelings if I could re-name the inputs....
__________________
-Michael-

Mancave Analog - Technics SL-1200G / K&K Audio Maxxed Phono Amp (Zu DL-103 / Benz Glider-SL / Denon DL-301 II)
Mancave - Bricasti M12 + McIntosh MC60s + ZuAudio Druid V / ZuAudio Undertone.
Headphone - Blue Hawaii Special Edition + Voce
Office - PC/Holo Audio Kitsune Tuned Level 3+Violectric HPA V281+Focal Utopia
Beach Laptop/DragonFly Red+MrSpeakers Ether
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