Krell s-1000 Vs Theta III

[enit]

I'm with Theta Casablanca III here. It is a super processor. Staging is super precise and detailed. It is 'energetic', cards are upgradable. 2-channel and home theatre benefit well with this processor.

It is quieter but bears a similar character than the Krell.

McIntosh amplifiers go very well with both brands of processors, and giving you better refinement in the mids and highs with natural bass decay. I'd go with mc601s x3 to justify this range of processors at least.

I was just listening to the Gen8 with the MC601s, and I've never enjoyed the sound stage, attack, details as much as I did with other Pre-amps I placed it against. Namely the C50, C2300 from McIntosh, and the Krell Phantoms.

However, with the Theta amps Enterprise, I did feel it lacked the refined and smooth mid range that the McIntosh Mc601 delivered.

The Theta Casablanca bears an almost identical tone and character to the Gen8.

It is awesome...

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[Uberbrown]

If you are thinking of a CBIII HD, Id wait till they release their new features. They are working on new DACs for the unit, a new Dirac processing option, a new DSP board, new Digital Out Card, etc . . .. Looks like 6 months at a min.

[Uberbrown]

Originally Posted by enit

I was just listening to the Gen8 with the MC601s, and I've never enjoyed the sound stage, attack, details as much as I did with other Pre-amps I placed it against. Namely the C50, C2300 from McIntosh, and the Krell Phantoms.

However, with the Theta amps Enterprise, I did feel it lacked the refined and smooth mid range that the McIntosh Mc601 delivered.

The Theta Casablanca bears an almost identical tone and character to the Gen8.

Are you using a GenVIII V1, V2, or V3?

I may be reading you wrong, but are you saying you never enjoyed other preamps MORE than the GenVIII, or you never enjoyed the GENVIII as much as other preamps?

I ask because the GENVIII is a stand alone DAC that has a preamp built in as a feature, but will never outshine a dedicated preamp, like a MDA1000, whose preamp section will never best a C2300. Also, the GenVIII V2 and V3 preamp section is much improved over the V1 preamp section.

Moreover, the GenVIII is a superior DAC than the current Xtreme DACs in the CBIII HD.

Hope this helps.

TB

[enit]

Originally Posted by Uberbrown

Are you using a GenVIII V1, V2, or V3?

I may be reading you wrong, but are you saying you never enjoyed other preamps MORE than the GenVIII, or you never enjoyed the GENVIII as much as other preamps?

I ask because the GENVIII is a stand alone DAC that has a preamp built in as a feature, but will never outshine a dedicated preamp, like a MDA1000, whose preamp section will never best a C2300. Also, the GenVIII V2 and V3 preamp section is much improved over the V1 preamp section.

Moreover, the GenVIII is a superior DAC than the current Xtreme DACs in the CBIII HD.

Hope this helps.

TB

It was a GenVIII V2. I enjoyed it the most in my setup. The MDA1000 gives me a very luxurious and rich tone. Different from the mcd1100 or the GenVIII.

The preamp section in the GenVIII is "world class". Which makes me wonder if it is more of a DAC or Pre-amp. From my listening, I can tell you, it's both.

The C2300 has great tone, but the GenvIII had significantly better definition in staging, tone wise, it would be more subjective in preference, but GenVIII with Mc amps deliver super results.

It was very 3 dimensional. It was good with the attack, and detailed throughout, more so on the highs.

Admittedly, I am a fan of the Mc. I could pick up the Pre-amps without hesitating. The GenVIII for me is very different, and in a good and refreshing way.

The blend with the GenVIII and the Mc amps would be an excellent avenue for full Mc users to change to, when they begin to sought change in their set up (I can't see why, but it happens), for reasons like they feel they need more "excitement", "quickness in bass", and for those that prefer to mix-and-match.

I agree that with the mc in-built pre amp section in their DAC and CD players, never gives enough Dimensionality, and "big" tone differences, and any one of the mc dedicated Pre-amps/ processors will trump. So I know where you are coming from, but I'll say the GenVIII is a different 'species' altogether, and it's right on top with the best.

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[Uberbrown]

In a review, Jason Victor Serinus compares the Gen VIII v2 to the MDA1000.

Product Review

[enit]

Originally Posted by Uberbrown

In a review, Jason Victor Serinus compares the Gen VIII v2 to the MDA1000.

Product Review

Thanks for the link.

This review is quite old, nevertheless, Jason made very positive remarks on the performance of the Theta Generation 8, and I share quite a bit of that experience when playing with my system.

He later reviewed it in 2009, also raving about the Generation 8 V3. He said something along the lines if the Bel Canto DAC is a great hifi DAC, the gen8 is beyond hifi.

I didn't quite catch the comparison with the mda1000 in the review though.

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[Uberbrown]

Originally Posted by enit

I didn't quite catch the comparison with the mda1000 in the review though

Oops! I must be thinking of a different review. Ill try to find it.

Yes, the review is old. I wasn't aware of a newer one.

[Uberbrown]

Here is the review I was thinking of.

Product Review

It is the review of the MDA1000, and he compares the Gen VIII v1 to it. Interesting.

[enit]

Originally Posted by Uberbrown

Here is the review I was thinking of.

Product Review

It is the review of the MDA1000, and he compares the Gen VIII v1 to it. Interesting.

Thanks again for the link.

Here's my evaluation on the MDA1000:

The reference DAC needs to be paired with the McIntosh system for the ultimate synergy.
If Jason had plugged the MDA1000 into the Gen8, he would have been transported to a different plane in the audio universe.

The entire McINTOSH Reference system, mcd1000, mda1000, c1000p/c, Mc2kw, and Xrt2k performs truly closest to a live classical symphony and the sweet spot is the same sweet spot you'd hear live. It is truly effortless. It could be the "added" rich mid range, or the absolute low distortion, and high signal to noise ratio, or just the way McINTOSH designs them. I think they are the very definition of high fidelity audio. I could explain why, but that's too much writing for now.

The mda1000 needs to be used with a dedicated Pre-amp, and that's a better way to review the DAC functions. He should put the gen 8 along with the mda1000, c1000p/c in order for a justified comparison as functions and quality where McINTOSH has intended them to be. The volume controls in their CD players and dacs are really for convenience. Not performance in my opinion, at this level.

The theta gen8 has a very different sound. Almost 180 degree difference in sonic character, with tighter bass, and brighter highs, and it is ideal to use the gen 8's preamp, that's where the most difference is. It creates "added" excitement, and will be great alternative for jazz music versus the McINTOSH reference.

I would recommend considering the theta gen8 for mc users if they find their fingers itching for an alternate sound, something they heard from a Krell system, or a mark Levinson, or a theta system, where there just a need for the added "punch" and "brilliance", but don't want to lose the refined mid and highs and natural bass from the McINTOSH and consider this if you are up there with McINTOSH c500 and c1000 preamps. In my experience, this combination is the best alternative, and listener will have everything he desires, the perfect blend for refinement, detail, and bass.

I would configure electronics as such to summarize:
Mcd500, c500c/p or t (theta gen8), mc1.2kw. P for comparison and quietness, t for tube tone and a wider variety of difference against the gen 8).

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[jeffkrag]

Originally Posted by spl800

What do you think is better?
Theta Casablanca III with superior DAC for front and center
Or my krell s-1000

Well, I have been doing a ton of research on processors over the past year, and I have to be honest, the S-1000 was often described as a major disappointment at it's pricepoint and compared to previous Krell models. I rarely read a good thing about it. The S1200 on the other hand, while it did have a few forum naysayers, mostly had terrific reviews from at least one pro reviewer (Tech Radar) and several forum posters with excellent equipment (so I assume they would be good judges), including several here on this forum (see the S1200 thread in the Krell forum) and another similar forum. In fact, one new S1200 owner here suggested it was competitive with his ARC Ref5 preamp, which is quite a statement.

As for the Casablanca, it has always flat-out stellar reviews as perhaps the best processor extant for movies, and darn good for music too (with the top dac module installed).

So, all in all, I agree with a previous poster that the Theta, with its excellent reputation and incredible upgradability, is a great choice. And, I would also expect, based on my research (caveat:but not my own ears), that it would handily beat the S-1000. The S-1200 would probably make it a much closer fight.

Hope that helps, and sorry to throw some cold water on the S-1000, it's just what jumped out in my research.

Best....Jeff