AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > Audio Research

Audio Research State of the Art Audio Reproduction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:25 AM
Stumil's Avatar
Stumil Stumil is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Central NJ
Posts: 5
Default Gain setting question for Ref Phono 2, Ref 3, Clearaudio Concerto cartridge

Just bought a ARC Ref Phono 2 from a fellow audiophile/addict on AudiogoN to replace my ARC PH7. My pre-amp is a ARC Ref 3, amp Ref 110, turntable VPI Scoutmaster, speakers Vandersteen 5a. My phono cartridge is a Clearaudio Concerto with an output voltage of 0.8mV. My Ref Phono 2 has the following output choices:

Balanced High Gain: 74
Balanced Low Gain: 51
Single End High Gain: 68
Single End Low Gain: 45

Using Bob Harley’s formula from his book, the optimum gain would be 62db. Currently I’m running it at the balanced High Gain setting of 74 and things sound really great. I don’t think I’m overloading my ARC Ref 3 pre-amp, at least not that I can hear. I’m currently listening at a comfortable level with the pre-amp at the 21 volume level for vocals. I’ve been up as high as 50 for quiet symphonic passages. There is plenty of volume adjustability at low volume levels meaning that 1 on the Ref 3 volume scale doesn’t blow me out of the room. With the above facts, please consider the following options and offer some advice:

1) Do nothing. Sound is great, no reason to screw around.
2) Have my local ARC approved tech adjust the Ref Phono 2 gain down from 74 to something lower (is this possible, advisable, reversible?)
3) Run single-end instead of balanced which would lower gain to 68 from 74. Don’t I really want to run balanced though?
4) Replace my cartridge with a lower output cartridge?

Thanks - Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:49 AM
rscotth's Avatar
rscotth rscotth is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida/NY
Posts: 1,364
Default

Stuart....Welcome to AA!! I'm sure others will chime in with some suggestions. This place is a wealth of information. Stick around.

Scott
__________________
Florida

Dan D'Agostino Momentum HD Preamp
Dan D'Agostino Momentum Phono Preamp
Dan D'Agostino Momentum M400 MxV x 3
Dan D'Agostino Momentum S250
dCS Vivaldi Apex DAC
dCS Vivaldi Upsampler
dCS Vivaldi Clock
Wilson Audio Alexia 2, Yvette & Mezzo
REL No.32 x 2
REL Carbon Special x 2
AVID Acutus Ref SP, Roon Nucleus+
McIntosh MX151, MVP881
HRS SXR Signature Audio Stand
Transparent Gen5Ref throughout!

New York

Dan D'Agostino Momentum HD Preamp
Dan D'Agostino Momentum M400 MxV x 2
dCS Rossini Dac
dCS Rossini Clock
Wilson Audio Alexia 2
REL No.25 x 2
Roon Nucleus+
Transparent Gen5Ref throughout!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:33 PM
Dafos Dafos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 14' N
Posts: 342
Default

1. Simply enjoy the benefit of a medium output Mc cart driving a fully balanced high gain phono stage.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
cmalak's Avatar
cmalak cmalak is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dafos
1. Simply enjoy the benefit of a medium output Mc cart driving a fully balanced high gain phono stage.
I agree with this. Does not sound like you need to do anything other than enjoy.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:38 PM
BlueChiaro's Avatar
BlueChiaro BlueChiaro is offline
Hear to listen...
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia suburbs
Posts: 2,838
Default

Welcome, Stuart! I'm no vinyl guru, by any means, but if it's sounding "really great," then I wouldn't touch a thing...I'd just enjoy it. I would stay with the balanced inputs since you have that option.
__________________
When I grow up, I want to be a little boy. - Joseph Heller

Aural pleasures courtesy of SME, Dynavector, Audio Research, Simaudio, Wireworld, & Wilson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Removed Removed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumil View Post
Just bought a ARC Ref Phono 2 from a fellow audiophile/addict on AudiogoN to replace my ARC PH7. My pre-amp is a ARC Ref 3, amp Ref 110, turntable VPI Scoutmaster, speakers Vandersteen 5a. My phono cartridge is a Clearaudio Concerto with an output voltage of 0.8mV. My Ref Phono 2 has the following output choices:

Balanced High Gain: 74
Balanced Low Gain: 51
Single End High Gain: 68
Single End Low Gain: 45

Using Bob Harley’s formula from his book, the optimum gain would be 62db. Currently I’m running it at the balanced High Gain setting of 74 and things sound really great. I don’t think I’m overloading my ARC Ref 3 pre-amp, at least not that I can hear. I’m currently listening at a comfortable level with the pre-amp at the 21 volume level for vocals. I’ve been up as high as 50 for quiet symphonic passages. There is plenty of volume adjustability at low volume levels meaning that 1 on the Ref 3 volume scale doesn’t blow me out of the room. With the above facts, please consider the following options and offer some advice:

1) Do nothing. Sound is great, no reason to screw around.
2) Have my local ARC approved tech adjust the Ref Phono 2 gain down from 74 to something lower (is this possible, advisable, reversible?)
3) Run single-end instead of balanced which would lower gain to 68 from 74. Don’t I really want to run balanced though?
4) Replace my cartridge with a lower output cartridge?

Thanks - Stuart
The Concerto is on the high side of a low output MC cartridge (.8mV)......the 62dB of gain is in the ball park but wouldn't go much higher. I own the Concerto and about a dozen phono stages and find gain settings in the high 50's to low 60's sound best with the phono stages I own, Manley Labs, Aesthetix, Zesto, etc.....IMO 74dB of gain may be over driving your cartridge.....I would try one of the lower settings or look into a cartridge better suited for your phono stage.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:54 PM
Cascais's Avatar
Cascais Cascais is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Portugal
Posts: 29
Default

Adopt option one while you're enjoying the sound. Being an audiophile, you will begin to have doubts, to stick your head through the sonic fence to hear if the sound is better on the other side. Then start tinkering and probably return to what you are enjoying now. The music is the thing.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:53 AM
howiebrou's Avatar
howiebrou howiebrou is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cloud Nine
Posts: 3,977
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumil View Post
Just bought a ARC Ref Phono 2 from a fellow audiophile/addict on AudiogoN to replace my ARC PH7. My pre-amp is a ARC Ref 3, amp Ref 110, turntable VPI Scoutmaster, speakers Vandersteen 5a. My phono cartridge is a Clearaudio Concerto with an output voltage of 0.8mV. My Ref Phono 2 has the following output choices:

Balanced High Gain: 74
Balanced Low Gain: 51
Single End High Gain: 68
Single End Low Gain: 45

Using Bob Harley’s formula from his book, the optimum gain would be 62db. Currently I’m running it at the balanced High Gain setting of 74 and things sound really great. I don’t think I’m overloading my ARC Ref 3 pre-amp, at least not that I can hear. I’m currently listening at a comfortable level with the pre-amp at the 21 volume level for vocals. I’ve been up as high as 50 for quiet symphonic passages. There is plenty of volume adjustability at low volume levels meaning that 1 on the Ref 3 volume scale doesn’t blow me out of the room. With the above facts, please consider the following options and offer some advice:

1) Do nothing. Sound is great, no reason to screw around.
2) Have my local ARC approved tech adjust the Ref Phono 2 gain down from 74 to something lower (is this possible, advisable, reversible?)
3) Run single-end instead of balanced which would lower gain to 68 from 74. Don’t I really want to run balanced though?
4) Replace my cartridge with a lower output cartridge?

Thanks - Stuart
Stuart, I also run mine at high gain but my cartridge (Benz Micro LP-S) is much lower in output. I would say if you enjoy the sound the high gain produces, then keep it. There seems little point to get it in the right ballpark only for the music to disappoint you. On the other hand you might have just got used to the high gain in which case you could switch to low gain, have a couple of days off listening for your ears to re-set and try it again.

Is your phono cable balanced? Most are not and are rca terminated.

howie
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:47 AM
Jerome W's Avatar
Jerome W Jerome W is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,240
Default

I wonder what is the gain when someone uses a XLR cable on one end, on the XLR output of the ARC REF 2, and unbalanced at the other end of the cable, into RCA inputs of a line preamp. ???

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
__________________
There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats
Albert Schweitzer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-11-2012, 07:05 AM
turntable's Avatar
turntable turntable is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Downunder in Sydney
Posts: 1,774
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jérôme W View Post
I wonder what is the gain when someone uses a XLR cable on one end, on the XLR output of the ARC REF 2, and unbalanced at the other end of the cable, into RCA inputs of a line preamp. ???

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado
Jerome, It would be the 68db gain for unbalanced. You need balanced all the way to the amp if you are to get the 6db gain.

If I had fully balanced system I would use rca and xlr connection. Depending on cartridge you could have 4 different gain settings.

To the op. I would try the balanced low gain setting and see if that sounds more pure and you have enough gain -all things being equal, it should sound better as it has one less gain stage.
Then try comparable rca cable at the 68 db gain. Then keep which one sounds better.

Cheers

Last edited by turntable; 12-11-2012 at 07:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video