ARC REF Phono 2 in and it's outstanding...

[cmalak]

Jerome...sounds like a good plan Let us know what you think.

[Jerome W]

I'm also wondering if there would be any advantage of balanced outputs from the Ref2 compared to the unbalanced of the PH8 / 6, knowing that my preamp and my power amps are fully balanced .

Mr Verdier told me that balanced electronics are more a marketing thing than something that could be really heard in domestic audio. According to him, balanced signals are only valuable in the pro world, who runs long cables.
Saying that, all the major brands do have balanced components in their top of the line products, Shindo included, so there might be some advantage when it comes to the sound by itself no ?
Most high end phono preamps offer balanced outputs ( and sometimes inputs ) even not very expensive ones like the Linn Uphorik and the LP12 inboard phono stage Urika...
Would I really hear a difference using the balanced outputs of the Ref2 in the C1000 versus the unbalanced ones of the PH8....

[Asterisk]

Originally Posted by tonepub

Actually, it's the other way around. It all started with the REF Phono 2....

There are no plans on an upgrade for the REF Phono 2 anytime soon.

As for the question on the PH8, I have one on the way for review and will be happy to let you guys know how close the two are. Talking to Warren Gehl at ARC the other day (Warren is pretty much the main "golden ears" guy at ARC), he said that the PH8 is very close to the REF. It does not have quite as big of a power supply, and a smaller tube compliment, but for 8k, will probably be pretty amazing, especially if you don't need two inputs. Personally, I wish the REF had three, but that's probably the exception rather than the rule!

I'll keep you guys posted as soon as I get my hands on the PH8!

Jeff,


Thanks for clearing things up. I'm also considering the PH8 as an option as I don't need the extra eq curves that cyril has mentioned.

looking forward to your review.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by tima

The Ref Phono 2 offers selectable gain of 51dB (low) or 74dB (high) when its balanced outputs are used; using its single-ended outputs, gain is 45dB (low) and 68dB (high).

Single-ended interfaces can be more prone to hum and grounding issues.

There is the typical audiophile debate about the merits of balanced vs single-ended circuitry and cabling, so you may get a variety of viewpoints.

Perhaps there is a different way to consider this: since you have a lot of McIntosh gear, inquire of the manufacturers of your balanced electronics about why they chose to offer balanced circuitry in their products and what they think of a balanced system vs one that is not.

Inasmuch as a typical stereo cartridge is a balanced device and the rest of your system is balanced, there is the opportunity to maintain a fully balanced system.

tima

Thanks a lot for your input !

[Tonepub]

Jerome, if you are using a relatively short interconnect between a PH8 and your Mc preamp, probably unlikely that there would be a difference. The balanced thing really comes in handy for long cable runs, as Ivan has done between his phono preamplifier on the rest of his system.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by tonepub

Jerome, if you are using a relatively short interconnect between a PH8 and your Mc preamp, probably unlikely that there would be a difference. The balanced thing really comes in handy for long cable runs, as Ivan has done between his phono preamplifier on the rest of his system.

Jeff, this is also what Mr. Verdier told me. A very controversial topic indeed....

[Tonepub]

Proponents of both sides all claim that their approach is best. Personally, I've heard excellent examples of each, so I find it tough to believe that one is all that much better. In the case of phono stages, where the cartridge is truly a balanced source, I have heard a bit more music on a fully balanced phono stage. I was actually surprised that the REF 2 phono did not have balanced inputs...

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by tonepub

Proponents of both sides all claim that their approach is best. Personally, I've heard excellent examples of each, so I find it tough to believe that one is all that much better. In the case of phono stages, where the cartridge is truly a balanced source, I have heard a bit more music on a fully balanced phono stage. I was actually surprised that the REF 2 phono did not have balanced inputs...

Jeff, that's maybe because 95% of the phono cables on the market are unbalanced....
Now, if the ARC converts the signal to a balanced one and treats it all the way to the output in balanced, I have no objection about it...

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Jeff, that's maybe because 95% of the phono cables on the market are unbalanced....
Now, if the ARC converts the signal to a balanced one and treats it all the way to the output in balanced, I have no objection about it...

Jerome...that's exactly what it does.

By the way, I agree with the above comments that unless you are running very long interconnects between equipment, the difference between SE and balanced connections is not noticeable except for the 6dB attenuation that tima mentioned. So on the same preamp volume setting, the SE will be 6dB lower than through a balanced collection. But if you level match the signal (using an SPL) than you should hear no difference between SE and balanced in typical lengths of ICs.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Jerome...that's exactly what it does.

By the way, I agree with the above comments that unless you are running very long interconnects between equipment, the difference between SE and balanced connections is not noticeable except for the 6dB attenuation that tima mentioned. So on the same preamp volume setting, the SE will be 6dB lower than through a balanced collection. But if you level match the signal (using an SPL) than you should hear no difference between SE and balanced in typical lengths of ICs.

Compris Cyril,
Thanks !