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  #11  
Old 05-25-2011, 12:20 AM
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Alberto Alberto is offline
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Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
Tape measures? Lasers? Really?
Alas, yes. Well, mostly tape measure to "draw" gridlines with masking tape and laser to make it look like I'm high-tech :-).

Alberto
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2011, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto View Post
Alas, yes. Well, mostly tape measure to "draw" gridlines with masking tape and laser to make it look like I'm high-tech :-).

Alberto
Since we started this way let's just throw out the question for consideration: Do our eyes (and tape measures and lasers) see the room visually the way the speakers see the room acoustically?

No lurkers. Jump in.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:05 AM
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Dj_AmTraX Dj_AmTraX is offline
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In a tiny room, you do what ever it takes to get the BigGesT sound.
Sort like crawling around the room to hear the most bass to figure out where to put the sub. I still need to spend some time dialing in the sub. I have OCD so I everything I do know how to dial things in PERFECTLY.
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Preamps/tuners:McIntosh C50, C46, MR88, MR73, C2200, C22ce, Cary SPL-98L
Integrate amps:McIntosh MA6100, Denon PMA2000ivr
Amps: McIntosh Mc602, Mc2000, Mc275 MK-V, Cary 805ae mono blocks.
Speakers: JMLab Mezzo Utopia, Focal Twin6 BE, Tannoy Mini Autograph
Headphones: Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1, Denon D7000, Grado RS1i, Sony MDR-SA5000, MDR-Z1000, AKG K701, and many many more
Digital Sources:Sony SCD-1 & SCD777es, CDP-XA7es, 2010 Mac Mini Music Server, Amarra Mini player, Musical Fidelity V-Link & M1 DAC, Apogee Mini-DAC & Duet 2

Last edited by Dj_AmTraX; 05-25-2011 at 01:16 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:13 AM
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Vintage Pete Vintage Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
Tape measures? Lasers? Really?
Tape measures? Definitely. Lasers? Wellll.......


Pete
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No. 35


Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers

Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna

Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling

Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator

High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:15 AM
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metaphacts metaphacts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_AmTraX View Post
In a tiny room, you do what ever it takes to get the BigGesT sound.
Sort like crawling around the room to hear the most bass to figure out where to put the sub. I still need to spend some time dialing in the sub. I have OCD so I everything I know how to dial things in PERFECTLY.
Hmm. Crawling around to find bass.

I only do that after too much wine.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
Since we started this way let's just throw out the question for consideration: Do our eyes (and tape measures and lasers) see the room visually the way the speakers see the room acoustically?

No lurkers. Jump in.
There is the visual centerline, and then there is (much more importantly) the acoustic centerline between the speakers and listening position. I too have not moved my speakers in years, as they are both the exact same distance from the "sweet spot" listening position, and produce the wide and focused soundstage I desire.

Pete
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Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers

Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna

Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling

Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator

High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:22 AM
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metaphacts metaphacts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Pete View Post
There is the visual centerline, and then there is (much more importantly) the acoustic centerline between the speakers and listening position. I too have not moved my speakers in years, as they are both the exact same distance from the "sweet spot" listening position, and produce the wide and focused soundstage I desire.

Pete

First key to speaker set up: "There is the visual centerline, and then there is (much more importantly) the acoustic centerline"

The acoustic center of the room (which matters) may or may not be the same as the visual center (which doesn't)
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:29 AM
Tonepub Tonepub is offline
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very true....
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:50 AM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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I did experience many positions, but still found it difficult to prefer one over the other. I like the sound with only 3 or 5 ° of toe in ( more air between instruments, more details, larger scene ) and I like it also indeed with much more toe in of about 15 to 20 ° ! ( more weight of the sound, more bass but some loss od details and air ).

So i prefer to wait for Bill to come to Paris !
( Bill, if one day you come to Paris between 20 july and 15 august, you can come with all your family : I will let you the whole house ! )
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  #20  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:57 AM
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Hello folks

Turn your speakers around and face them into the wall. This little nick of humor just demostrates how important the speaker placement is. Where your speakers are facing is so important and yet so political . Since you want them facing forward, how do you do this?

Well the answer is, do what ever way you want. Tape measures help ,but really there is nothing stopping you from putting your speaker in the most awkward, screwed up position that you like. The trick is - know what you like in your room and ad- lib.

Just look for an open space in soundstage, don't worry about frequency ups and downs and stuff. You will find the most enjoyable experiences in soundstage is if what you hear is uninterrupted by walls and tvs and furniture.
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