Speaker placement the ultimate tweak!

[crwilli]

First impressions...

I positioned the speakers using the 'Cardas' formula for my room. It is 7.8' high X 14.6' wide X 20.3' long. The speakers are out 78" from the back wall and 48" from the sides. Started listening in the near field with a fair degree of toe in, but with these speakers that doesn't really work. The staging was just off. And frankly, visually, sitting that close to the speakers felt wrong.

I found moving the listening position back to 1.3 times the distance the speakers are apart with only a slight amount of toe in, the sound stage was perfect (plus a few strategic blankets on the walls. (remember this is a storage room!)

Still dialing in the EMIM\EMITs and 'low end' but so far, I am smiling a lot remembering what I had been missing for many years. It is like getting my first stereo system some 35 years ago! Norah Jones was IN the house this morning with pretty blue Mc meters dancing away.

This is going to be fun.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by crwilli

First impressions...

I positioned the speakers using the 'Cardas' formula for my room. It is 7.8' high X 14.6' wide X 20.3' long. The speakers are out 78" from the back wall and 48" from the sides. Started listening in the near field with a fair degree of toe in, but with these speakers that doesn't really work. The staging was just off. And frankly, visually, sitting that close to the speakers felt wrong.

I found moving the listening position back to 1.3 times the distance the speakers are apart with only a slight amount of toe in, the sound stage was perfect (plus a few strategic blankets on the walls. (remember this is a storage room!)

Still dialing in the EMIM\EMITs and 'low end' but so far, I am smiling a lot remembering what I had been missing for many years. It is like getting my first stereo system some 35 years ago! Norah Jones was IN the house this morning with pretty blue Mc meters dancing away.

This is going to be fun.

Too cool!

[bakerman]

crwilli, It's great when you start getting them dialed in. I've tried using the Cardas method before as well. It puts my speakers too far into the room as far as my wife is concerned. It does sound very good but I'm always messing around with the placement every 3-4 months or so... It's a disease...

[mvision7m]

Great thread!

I have Paradigm Studio 100 V.4 mains and have spent a lot of time adjusting and readjusting their respective positions for the best "musically" coherent sound.

It's been really tough and extremely frustrating at times. I'm sure many others here have experienced this at one point or another while doing their own speaker placement adjustments. It can be a real trial getting positioning just right and there have times I was left only with deep disappointment by the end of the night knowing my system isn't performing anywhere near its potential.

I never realized just how difficult it could be to position speakers in a room so that they sound musical and emotionally involving. In moving my speakers about my listening space, even with the differences in position only millimeters apart, the difference in perceived sound is stark. Just a nudge in any direction can mean the total collapse of soundstage, liveliness, air and energy or it could bring everything together into a seriously satisfying musical whole.

I have had my speakers positioned to the point where the music between and around them floated in the air and sounded natural and involving without being at all fatiguing. Crisp, clear (no sibilance) vocals centrally located between the speakers, well defined, tight and authoritative bass lines, atmosphere that fills the front of the room, natural sounding piano notes and cymbals etc. I've actually been surprised at how good these speakers can sound musically when I've nailed their positioning. There have been times that I've fleetingly thought to myself "Wow! I wonder how much more I'd have to spend to get considerably better sound (musically) that this because this is damned good"?

B.T.W., I say "musically" a lot only because there are some who more so listen to "sound" rather than music. Some who focus on the separate parts of a song's/speaker's sound in a statistical/technical/mathematical sense as apposed to how musically engaging a properly set up speaker sounds in the complete sense. Nothing wrong with either, I just happen to listen for musicality above all else.

My speakers have also been poorly positioned to the point where the sound was completely flat, lifeless and unexciting with loosely defined bass and during those times, I wouldn't even want to listen to music at all. On the flip side, when they've been set up just right, I spend a lot of nights staying up well past my normal bed time listening to music but when it's wrong, I hardly listen to anything unless it's to try to get it all right again. I'm sure many can relate so I know I'm not alone.

Unfortunately for me, my two channel system is also part of a surround sound system set up in my small living room and the speakers do accidentally get nudged out of position from time to time by me, my girlfriend, visitors etc. It's inevitable given that I don't currently have a dedicated room for a two channel set up and when it does happen that they get bumped, there I am getting up, adjusting, sitting down over and over and over in search of regaining "that sound". It's been both frustrating and rewarding, I just wish that when I do get them set up perfectly, I could somehow anchor them to the floor so that they couldn't accidentally be moved. Painter's tape only works so well in getting the magic back in my experience.

I've found that my speakers work better/best with more toe in rather than less. And that's held true in the two completely differently sized, shaped rooms that I've had them set up in so far. Now if I could only either have a separate two channel rig in a dedicated room or find a way to "lock" my speakers into place after I nail their positioning. Se la vie.

On goes this hobby of ours.

Happy positioning!

[scubi]

Great thread...I love it!
Thank you guys

[mbovaird]

Another tweak I recently made (at the suggestion of Jeff D. of Tone Pub) was to move my gear to the back of the room - which I've done. Wow! What a difference. It really helped with sound diffusion. Vocals are perfectly centered with pin point accuracy. Instruments maintain their place in space much longer and are much more accurate. It made a big difference.

Get Better Sound by Jim Smith is a must read/watch as well. I maintain the 82% rule works!

Get the bass right first (depth of speakers vs the back wall), then worry about focusing the image (width of speakers vs the side wall). That's my two cents...

Mike

[bakerman]

Originally Posted by mbovaird

Another tweak I recently made (at the suggestion of Jeff D. of Tone Pub) was to move my gear to the back of the room - which I've done. Wow! What a difference. It really helped with sound diffusion. Vocals are perfectly centered with pin point accuracy. Instruments maintain their place in space much longer and are much more accurate. It made a big difference.

Get Better Sound by Jim Smith is a must read/watch as well. I maintain the 82% rule works!

Get the bass right first (depth of speakers vs the back wall), then worry about focusing the image (width of speakers vs the side wall). That's my two cents...

Mike

This is what I've been working on lately. I move them backward or forward an inch or so, then listen for a couple of days, try to jot down a quick note or two and then try it again.

[John49]

Originally Posted by bakerman

This is what I've been working on lately. I move them backward or forward an inch or so, then listen for a couple of days, try to jot down a quick note or two and then try it again.

A friend of mine suggested that to get better sound, I should move my system to his house...

[LordoftheRingsEE]

-- If he lives in a garage, don't trust him.

[bakerman]

Originally Posted by John49

A friend of mine suggested that to get better sound, I should move my system to his house...

Did you give him one of these?