Devore Silverbacks Reference Ordered !

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Jerome...congrats! Very nice speakers.

Thank you Cyril !

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Jerome...congrats! Very nice speakers.

Thank you Cyril !

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by NeilNZ

I can tell you from experience that the Harbeth 40.1s won't work with Shindo, believe me I have tried. You will get sound, but you will be stifling a lot of what the Shindos do. I like Harbeth, but definitely not the right speaker for Shindo amps.
But it's your money!

And it's your ears. Audio is too subjective to accept these kind of assertions.
Do you listen at the same volume as I do ? Is your room the same as mine ? Did you try the CCQ on them ? Did you position the M40.1 in your room according to Harbeth's recommendations? I would be very curious since not many dealers in the world had the chance to get one pair of those....
I worked so hard in the treatment of my room that I can have almost any decent speaker sound very good in it. I went from an awful sounding room to a fabulous sounding one.

"I used a few different amplifiers to drive the M40.1s, hewing mostly to the distributor's suggestion that the new flagship is more suitable for use with low-power amps than the old. But despite my optimism, the 10Wpc Shindo Cortese simply couldn't drive the Harbeths well enough to hold my interest. A 23Wpc DNM PA3ΔS did a much better job, as did my rebuilt Quad II monoblocks, which can pass 20 undistorted watts across an 8-ohm load. But best of all were the amazingly rich, dynamic Shindo Corton-Charlemagnes: At 25Wpc, those push-pull (EL34) monoblocks brought the Harbeths to life better than any other amp I tried." Harbeth M40.1 review by Art Dudley in Stereophile.
So Artie, one of the most respected audio reviewers in the US, should have his ears checked, according to you and Jonathan.
You can say that the Shindo amos can do much more with other speakers. Or that the M40.1 will sound better with other amps. But you just cannot say that Shindo "won't work with the M40.1". Alan Shaw recommends 50 W of power. The CCQ are 70W in class A. They can work on the M40.1.

It has been my experience, since years now, not to trust the " it won't work" stuff, even when it comes from the manufacturer itself. We all have different tastes.
My CCQ have no problem at all driving the Wilson WP8's in my room. I get everything. The bass is full, rich, fast and deep at the same time. Just ask the people here who listened to that system. An other example : Rega RS10 speakers. Supposed to need a lot of power. Work wonderfully with the CCQ and also amazing with the little 50W MA5100 McIntosh integrated. And you know what, to my ears, the 5100 is head and shoulders above the Rega flagship amp for them, the Osiris. And yes, I had both amps in my home !

So I put absolute statements in this hobby where they should be : in a far away place of my brains.

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[vinod_david]

Wow, good post. Congratulations on Harbeth M40.1, Jerome.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by vinod_david

Wow, good post. Congratulations on Harbeth M40.1, Jerome.

Thank you David !

[kev313]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

And it's your ears. Audio is too subjective to accept these kind of assertions. Do you listen at the same volume as I do ? Is your room the same as mine ? Did you try the CCQ on them ? Did you position the M40.1 in your room according to Harbeth's recommendations? I would be very curious since not many dealers in the world had the chance to get one pair of those.... I worked so hard in the treatment of my room that I can have almost any decent speaker sound very good in it. I went from an awful sounding room to a fabulous sounding one. "I used a few different amplifiers to drive the M40.1s, hewing mostly to the distributor's suggestion that the new flagship is more suitable for use with low-power amps than the old. But despite my optimism, the 10Wpc Shindo Cortese simply couldn't drive the Harbeths well enough to hold my interest. A 23Wpc DNM PA3ΔS did a much better job, as did my rebuilt Quad II monoblocks, which can pass 20 undistorted watts across an 8-ohm load. But best of all were the amazingly rich, dynamic Shindo Corton-Charlemagnes: At 25Wpc, those push-pull (EL34) monoblocks brought the Harbeths to life better than any other amp I tried." Harbeth M40.1 review by Art Dudley in Stereophile. So Artie, one of the most respected audio reviewers in the US, should have his ears checked, according to you and Jonathan. You can say that the Shindo amos can do much more with other speakers. Or that the M40.1 will sound better with other amps. But you just cannot say that Shindo "won't work with the M40.1". Alan Shaw recommends 50 W of power. The CCQ are 70W in class A. They can work on the M40.1. It has been my experience, since years now, not to trust the " it won't work" stuff, even when it comes from the manufacturer itself. We all have different tastes. My CCQ have no problem at all driving the Wilson WP8's in my room. I get everything. The bass is full, rich, fast and deep at the same time. Just ask the people here who listened to that system. An other example : Rega RS10 speakers. Supposed to need a lot of power. Work wonderfully with the CCQ and also amazing with the little 50W MA5100 McIntosh integrated. And you know what, to my ears, the 5100 is head and shoulders above the Rega flagship amp for them, the Osiris. And yes, I had both amps in my home ! So I put absolute statements in this hobby where they should be : in a far away place of my brains. Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

The way I read it, he referred to the amps as amazingly rich and dynamic, but not necessarily on the speakers. He also wrote that they worked better than the other amps he had on hand, but look at those other amps. In the measurements section, JA reports that Art could not drive them loudly with the Shindo. That isn't of great importance to me. Your personal preference may vary. I've never heard the combo, just pointing to some other interpretations of that passage. Like translations, I find that there is a lot to unpack in audio reviews. Too much to be of any use to me other than entertainment value. In that regard, I find Art to be the king of reviewers. That said, I should not advise anyone to "listen first" before buying as I also buy speakers without audition if I feel that will suit me. Curious though, if you are looking for ideal speakers for lower power tubes, and in light of your relationship, why not audition Keith's / A23 beautiful speakers?

Edit: As to the "it won't work," comments, as you probably realize, the folks that devote their professional life to representing this brand are keen to see it used properly. In other words, used in a system that allows it to work at it's full potential. Wouldn't it be nice if all manufacturers were as concerned about the results achieved by their customers?

In my personal - and unfortunate - experience, I can tell you that I used to be an Audio Research owner. The local dealer in Chicago provided no service other than picking up the phone, answering a question as to availability and placing an order. Follow up communication was non-existent. Same with the CA dealer who sold me the Magicos for my second system. In that case, there were lots of pre-sale promises about assistance, communication with Alon, etc. But at the end of the day, nothing. They are check cashers. Retail agents like the check out cashiers in a Wal Mart. Many dealers operate this way.

I'll take a relationship with a passionate dealer like Matt or Neil any day over those types. If it's not going to work, I'd rather hear it up front than trying to do it the hard, and expensive, way. When I bought my GM70s, Matt talked me out of some other Shindo amps first. The reasons and amp will remain between the two of us, but the price of the amps purchased was lower than what I initially wanted to buy. He also told me that my Tannoy Yorkminsters weren't particularly well suited to my gear. I didn't take his advice at the time. I thought I knew better. I happily sold them recently. Were they awful? No. They were pretty good. Great sometimes. But there is a lot of beauty and magic hiding in your Shindo. It is good with many speakers but uncommonly good - amazing - with the right speakers. Neil is trying to be annoying or disparage your new speakers. He is, however, well suited to tell others how to maximize the results from Shindo. It's professional integrity.

[Jerome W]

Kev : Good Post !

I agree that my amps will perform much better with other speakers, ie I am not listening to their full potential and magic.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Kev : Good Post !

I agree that my amps will perform much better with other speakers, ie I am not listening to their full potential and magic.

That being said, even if I am listening only to half of the magic of what the CCQ can deliver, since it is much better than all the amps I listened to. At 50 % of its qualities, the CCQ kill the 2301's. That's enough for me !
Finally am I a 100% audiophile ? I may be only half of it.

Now I am not a taliban. If the Harbeth do not sing with the CCQ, they will be used with the MC2205 and the Giscours.

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[kev313]

Small edit... I meant Neil is NOT trying to be annoying. Sorry Neil!

[Cucumber_Jones]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

That being said, even if I am listening only to half of the magic of what the CCQ can deliver, since it is much better than all the amps I listened to. At 50 % of its qualities, the CCQ kill the 2301's. That's enough for me ! Finally am I a 100% audiophile ? I may be only half of it. Now I am not a taliban. If the Harbeth do not sing with the CCQ, they will be used with the MC2205 and the Giscours. Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

Very good to know you are not a Talaban. I will sleep easier now.

Just curious did you phone Steve in New York about the silver backs or did you just email? I have bought my shindo pre and power amps as well as my devores from Steve all with great success.