Wilson Sasha And Stereophile's 2012 Recommended List

[allen_bh]

I was going through Stereophile's 2012 Recommend Components list and found a couple of oddities:
1. The Wilson Sasha is listed in the "A (Restricted Extreme LF)", category which according to the article is:

"For those unconcerned about the last few hertz of low-bass extension, we have created “Classes A, B, and C (Restricted Extreme LF)” for those speakers that are state of the art in every other way. Candidates for inclusion in this class must still reach down to at least 40Hz, below the lowest notes of the four-string double-bass and bass guitar."

The published frequency response for the Sasha is 20Hz - 22kHz.


2. The B&W Nautilus is in the regular "A—Full-Range" category. The published frequency response for the 800D is 32Hz - 28kHz.

Why does everyone think the Sasha got put into a category that listed it as not being able to produce low frequencies (well) and the 800D didn't? Especially when the published frequency specs for each are in direct contradiction?

For those interested in the list:
2012 Recommended Components Loudspeakers | Stereophile.com

[Kal Rubinson]

So?

[allen_bh]

So Kal, if I understand this correctly, the 800d measured (in the stereophile lab) much better than its published specs?

[Kal Rubinson]

Mebbe. I never put much stock in manufacturer's specs except when I have to copy them for the headnote of the review copy. A big value of JA's measurements is that they are comparable from speaker to speaker.

[Jerome W]

Extreme LF reproduction is probably not a place where the Sasha or the other WP go. I agree. My EB1i can go lower for sure ( although not with the Shindo Apetite ! ). But their bass at 50 Hz is miles away behind the one of the WP8, in terms of tightness, clarity, dynamics.
I personnaly much prefer, in a domestic environment ( remember that for most of us, our rooms have nothing in common with concert halls ) a very clean tight and detailed bass starting at 50 / 60 Hz than a somehow muddy 30 Hz one, not because the speaker gives a muddy one, but because it will be much more tough to integrate this 30Hz in our rooms and find a really good amp in this area.
Speakers getting extremely low often require very high end pricey SS amps to control perfectly this 20 /30 Hz.
Those amps do not seduce me in the mids and the highs and the overall musicality and naturalness as lower power tube amplifiers. Of course, very musical and powerful SS monoblocks exist, but they start at insane prices.
So getting those extra LF is finally very tough : it needs amps like the Dags, Soulution, the new Dart monoblocks, Burmester 911, and so on.... and the extreme LF causes multiple problems to integrate perfectly in a domestic room. I know that many will disagree on those points and I'm fine with it.
I personnaly can do without extreme LF and be very happy.
Besides, I have not heard yet domestic speakers of normal size and volume that really gives unrestrained extreme LF. Would love to hear the Aidas though.
It usually starts with the Alexandria's and go to the Lyngdorf Steinway systems. Most speakers with "normal" size / volume are usually restricted in the extreme LF anyway.

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[kfr01]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Mebbe. I never put much stock in manufacturer's specs except when I have to copy them for the headnote of the review copy. A big value of JA's measurements is that they are comparable from speaker to speaker.

JA's measurements are one of the gems of Stereophile. In my opinion they provide a huge contribution to our hobby with every issue.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by kfr01

JA's measurements are one of the gems of Stereophile. In my opinion they provide a huge contribution to our hobby with every issue.

They are not always correlated with listening and JA mentions this sometimes.

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[Down Under]

i think JA's measurements for all equipment,not just speakers,adds a lot to Stereophile and the absence of these measurements in TAS is their weakness.
However the in room performance of the Sasha is quite spectacular.If they lack low bass then I have not noticed it.My normally reserved offspring come out of their rooms(a feat in itself) to ask if there was an earthquake.

[Face]

Manufactures love to add room and boundary gain into their measurements because it makes their speakers look better in ads. Since room dimensions and placement affect both, and not every room or placement is the same, you can pretty much throw those measurements out the window. It would be nice if all manufactures used anechoic measurements, so everyone could be on the same playing field.

[kfr01]

Originally Posted by Jérôme W

They are not always correlated with listening and JA mentions this sometimes.

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Jerome: absolutely true, but even when that disconnect exists, I still think the measurements can still be an instructive tool and can allow the reader to utilize an objective component in the overall analysis. The Sasha is a great example. Despite some elements questioned by JA, the Sasha won loudspeaker of the year.