802/803D3 owners - what amplification/upstreams?

[wadeh911]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

It has nothing to do with anything if I'm buying an iPad, but it matters to me. These aren't commodity off the shelf boomboxes. If you're paying luxury dollars for luxury products... the SAME luxury dollars you paid before if not more, for the company to build products in a facility that costs *THEM* less money but those savings aren't passed on to YOU. What the hell is the point? I have made this exact same argument over on the Bang and Olufsen forums where it's even MORE egregious. Those are sold as not just audio, but luxury lifestyle products from the word GO. When I'm paying a premium for a product I don't personally care about saving the producing company money in production. For that matter I can just buy cheaper gear. Part of what I'm paying for is the higher cost of production and providing an economy for the skilled craftspeople and assembly workers in the home countries of those companies. If I pay you more for your luxury product, part of that luxury comes from knowing my product isn't being made alongside everyone else's commodity product. That's not to say that I have a problem with LOWER end lines being produced in China. B&O's play line, B&W's iPod speaker things up to the CM Series, the Classe Delta line for example. Just not the primary lines. It's easy to articulate all day long that as long as the R&D is happening stateside or Canada or Denmark or whatever that the end product "will be just fine". But that's not what I'm paying you extra for. This was reinforced to me when I was selling my Classe CP-800 a while back and got numerous people who asked me "Is it the made in china or made in canada version?". Once I said China they'd just evaporate. The simplest example of this is Rolex. If Rolex began producing watches in China today. Their business would crumble within months and anyone who says any different, regardless if the watch was "just as good as it was before" is smoking crack. I consider Classe and McIntosh similarly premium products. If I want Chinese made I'll just buy Emotiva and save *literally* thousands. Fortunately, McIntosh so far have avoided this error.

Amazingly well stated with your conclusion with the Rolex brand contrasted with premier audio brands assembled in countries based on lower labor costs.

[Rod#S]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

It has nothing to do with anything if I'm buying an iPad, but it matters to me. These aren't commodity off the shelf boomboxes. If you're paying luxury dollars for luxury products... the SAME luxury dollars you paid before if not more, for the company to build products in a facility that costs *THEM* less money but those savings aren't passed on to YOU. What the hell is the point? I have made this exact same argument over on the Bang and Olufsen forums where it's even MORE egregious. Those are sold as not just audio, but luxury lifestyle products from the word GO.

When I'm paying a premium for a product I don't personally care about saving the producing company money in production. For that matter I can just buy cheaper gear. Part of what I'm paying for is the higher cost of production and providing an economy for the skilled craftspeople and assembly workers in the home countries of those companies. If I pay you more for your luxury product, part of that luxury comes from knowing my product isn't being made alongside everyone else's commodity product.

That's not to say that I have a problem with LOWER end lines being produced in China. B&O's play line, B&W's iPod speaker things up to the CM Series, the Classe Delta line for example. Just not the primary lines. It's easy to articulate all day long that as long as the R&D is happening stateside or Canada or Denmark or whatever that the end product "will be just fine". But that's not what I'm paying you extra for. This was reinforced to me when I was selling my Classe CP-800 a while back and got numerous people who asked me "Is it the made in china or made in canada version?". Once I said China they'd just evaporate.

The simplest example of this is Rolex. If Rolex began producing watches in China today. Their business would crumble within months and anyone who says any different, regardless if the watch was "just as good as it was before" is smoking crack. I consider Classe and McIntosh similarly premium products. If I want Chinese made I'll just buy Emotiva and save *literally* thousands.

Fortunately, McIntosh so far have avoided this error.

Good points however this doesn't account for "premium" products costing ridiculous amounts of money for what is often the case of market perceived better quality when in fact if you open the hood you will see nothing special so it cuts both ways. In these cases, if the products are being made in their respective home countries then it's also nothing more than price gouging, they charge the customer more because they can, not necessarily because the labour is higher.

[Patrick Butler]

Hi playdrv4me,

The CP-800 is a perfect example of why Classé moved production from their factory in Quebec to their factory in Zhuhai. The CP-800 replaced the CP-700, which retailed for $8000. Coming to market at $5000, it bested the CP-700's performance and added a host of useful features that the CP-700 lacked. Most of the reason why this was possible is because the cost of assembling the CP-800 in China was taken into account when it was brought to market, and that determined the retail price. Better performance, better features and $3000 less than the previous model. I'd call that progress.

Customers have a complicated set of reasons for buying what they buy, and price is most definitely a decisive factor. It's a very competitive marketplace, and I think smart companies find ways of increasing value and quality.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

It has nothing to do with anything if I'm buying an iPad, but it matters to me. These aren't commodity off the shelf boomboxes. If you're paying luxury dollars for luxury products... the SAME luxury dollars you paid before if not more, for the company to build products in a facility that costs *THEM* less money but those savings aren't passed on to YOU. What the hell is the point? I have made this exact same argument over on the Bang and Olufsen forums where it's even MORE egregious. Those are sold as not just audio, but luxury lifestyle products from the word GO.

When I'm paying a premium for a product I don't personally care about saving the producing company money in production. For that matter I can just buy cheaper gear. Part of what I'm paying for is the higher cost of production and providing an economy for the skilled craftspeople and assembly workers in the home countries of those companies. If I pay you more for your luxury product, part of that luxury comes from knowing my product isn't being made alongside everyone else's commodity product.

That's not to say that I have a problem with LOWER end lines being produced in China. B&O's play line, B&W's iPod speaker things up to the CM Series, the Classe Delta line for example. Just not the primary lines. It's easy to articulate all day long that as long as the R&D is happening stateside or Canada or Denmark or whatever that the end product "will be just fine". But that's not what I'm paying you extra for. This was reinforced to me when I was selling my Classe CP-800 a while back and got numerous people who asked me "Is it the made in china or made in canada version?". Once I said China they'd just evaporate.

The simplest example of this is Rolex. If Rolex began producing watches in China today. Their business would crumble within months and anyone who says any different, regardless if the watch was "just as good as it was before" is smoking crack. I consider Classe and McIntosh similarly premium products. If I want Chinese made I'll just buy Emotiva and save *literally* thousands.

Fortunately, McIntosh so far have avoided this error.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Patrick Butler

Hi playdrv4me,

The CP-800 is a perfect example of why Classé moved production from their factory in Quebec to their factory in Zhuhai. The CP-800 replaced the CP-700, which retailed for $8000. Coming to market at $5000, it bested the CP-700's performance and added a host of useful features that the CP-700 lacked. Most of the reason why this was possible is because the cost of assembling the CP-800 in China was taken into account when it was brought to market, and that determined the retail price. Better performance, better features and $3000 less than the previous model. I'd call that progress.

Customers have a complicated set of reasons for buying what they buy, and price is most definitely a decisive factor. It's a very competitive marketplace, and I think smart companies find ways of increasing value and quality.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

I have to both agree and disagree with you somewhat. I vaguely remember when I bought my 800 that there were still many 700 die-hards for a few reasons, not the least of which was the heavy duty outboard power supply which the 800 lost. So yes, it gained some new features (the interface to be sure was light years ahead of the painful one on the 700) but there WERE some things that were integrated or made more cheaply.

So, OK, I guess 3 grand is not a figure to sneeze at by any stretch, and I see how the off-shore production could have helped bring that number down. But a 5k pre-amp is still firmly in the luxury side of the spectrum to me. I feel like this product could be made domestically and still be profitable.

But I see your point.

[djohnson013]

Just received my 803 D3's Friday. Magnolia delivered them, set them up and left my REL sub still connected and the same settings that I had for the other speakers. I traded in my 804 diamonds d2's for the 803's.

I am using a McIntosh MA7900 for the amp. I put about 25 hours on them this weekend but really haven't had a chance to sit down and listen to them. I will review them this next weekend when I have more hours on them.
So far I am liking what I hear!

David

[Wasatch]

Congrats, enjoy.

[joey_v]

Originally Posted by djohnson013

Just received my 803 D3's Friday. Magnolia delivered them, set them up and left my REL sub still connected and the same settings that I had for the other speakers. I traded in my 804 diamonds d2's for the 803's.

I am using a McIntosh MA7900 for the amp. I put about 25 hours on them this weekend but really haven't had a chance to sit down and listen to them. I will review them this next weekend when I have more hours on them.
So far I am liking what I hear!

David

I'm confused. Magnolia takes in trades??

[djohnson013]

I purchased the 804 diamonds from them almost 3 years ago. They gave me exactly what I paid for them and charged me nothing for delivery and set up. It sounded like a win win situation to me so, I jumped on it.

[Wasatch]

Originally Posted by djohnson013

I purchased the 804 diamonds from them almost 3 years ago. They gave me exactly what I paid for them and charged me nothing for delivery and set up. It sounded like a win win situation to me so, I jumped on it.

Excellent upgrade program.

[advanced101]

I'm curious about the Magnolia Upgrade Program too. Is this advertised anywhere, or did the salesman just offer it to you?