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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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Old 04-08-2017, 01:37 PM
Mike-48's Avatar
Mike-48 Mike-48 is offline
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Question What crossovers/EQs are available?

I've used stereo subs for 10 yrs now. At first, I used a TacT 2.2X to implement crossover, sub time alignment, and LF EQ. Then a mod shop stole my TacT. I replaced it with a Classé CP-800, and now I'm wondering about updating that, but there is not much high-end gear aimed at 4-channel systems (2 main, 2 sub), as far as I can see.

What I am looking for:
  • Digital crossover between main and sub
  • Adjustments for sub-main timing (distance) in each channel
  • PEQ (automated or manual), mainly for f < 500 Hz or so (if auto, must be tweakable manually)
  • Tilt or tone controls (digital) to adjust poor recordings
  • A 4-channel DAC for mains and subs (but could use external DAC(s))
  • Relatively straightforward to set up and operate

What I decided on was a Classé CP-800, which has most of the above, but lacks any sub-main timing adjustment. It also lacks a way to set sub levels -- one has to do that at the subs, which in my case (JL F112) means tweaking small, uncalibrated knobs. I use a Dayton Omni mic to get a starting point for manual LF corrections made with the CP-800's PEQ.

Here is some current gear that might work in such a system (my thoughts in parens). I'd appreciate comments if people have tried some of this, and also about what other pieces are good possibilities.
  • DEQX Premate (Great DAC IME, but clanking relays on SR change; overly complex to set up)
  • JL Audio CR-1 (crossover only, no EQ, which disqualifies it)
  • Trinnov Amethyst (enticing if expensive)
  • Lyngdorf gear (lacks manual tweaks to "Room Perfect" auto EQ)
  • Classé (unreleased) CP-800 replacement
  • Devialet ??? (don't know much about it)
  • DSpeaker X4 (not yet released; appears to lack sub digital outs, AES3 ins; but otherwise a yes on features, at least)

An alternative would be JRiver and/or Acourate (or similar software) on a computer in the listening room. I have so far avoided having a computer there, as I think it would be a distraction. Also, Acourate corrections seem quite complex to get and keep running.

If anyone in Audio Aficionado is using such gear, it would be those in the subwoofer forum, so opinions, please!
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Mike -- Portland, Oregon
Desktop system: JRiver Media Center, Lynx Hilo, Marsh A400S, Harbeth P3ESR, B&W ASW610 (sub)
Main system: Synology NAS, Auralic Aries, Mutec MC-3+USB, Classé CP-800, AVA Fet Valve 400R, Janszen zA2.1, 2xJL F112, acoustics by ASC, GIK, RPG, & Vicoustic
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  #2  
Old 04-08-2017, 06:24 PM
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djwhog djwhog is offline
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Look at a DBX Drive Rack PA ora DBX DriveRack 260 or top end a dbx DriveRack VENU360

I run the Rack PA for one of my subs it is clean and very versital etc. Unlinited anount of EQ and points etc for a sub, mono, stereo, or 3way. 260 add EQ

dbx DriveRack PA2 Loudspeaker Management System at a Glance:
  • Take control of your PA system with this state-of-the-art loudspeaker management system
  • Automatically set up your PA with updated Wizard functions
  • Take control of the DriveRack PA2 with your favorite mobile device or laptop
  • Enhanced Advanced Feedback Suppression and AutoEQ functions
  • Includes dbx's legendary compression
  • Works with Android, iOS, Mac, and Windows devices
  • Built-in crossover, limiting, and driver alignment delays
  • Note: RTA microphone is NOT included


dbx DriveRack 260 features: 31 band EQ
  • Feedback elimination
  • 2.7 seconds of Alignment and Zone Delay
  • RS-232 PC GUI control
  • Classic dbx Compression and Limiting
  • Graphic and Parametric EQ
  • Auto-EQ function
  • Full Bandpass, Crossover, and Routing configurations
  • Auto Gain control
  • Pink Noise Generator and fulltime RTA
  • Set-up Wizard with JBL speaker and Crown Power Amp tunings
  • Security lockout
  • Wall Panel Control inputs
dbx DriveRack VENU360 Loudspeaker Management Processor Features:
  • AFS automatically identifies feedback frequencies and eliminates the problem
  • Driver alignment and zone delay functions
  • Wireless control from your Mac, PC, iOS, or Android devices
  • Classic transparent dbx compression and limiting
  • Graphic and parametric EQs for fine-tuning control
  • Auto-EQ function takes the guesswork out of tuning your PA to troublesome rooms
  • Full bandpass, crossover, and routing configurations up to 6-way operation
  • Auto gain control for easy setup
  • Subharmonic synthesis gives your bass a boost
  • Set-up wizard with speaker and amp tunings makes light work of system tuning
  • Security lockout keeps curious fingers from ruining your setup
  • Compatible with Ethernet audio wall controllers for installed sound
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Dave's Cave main Basement system
C500C C500T preamp and a MX150 control center, (3)McIntosh 601 mono block amps, (1)7270 McIntosh amp driving rears in 7.1 (1)Halo A23 amp for side surround, & (1)452 McIntosh amp for main towers part of a bi-amp setup with 601's, Esoteric K-03 JL F212 sub all glued together with mostly all WireWorld & Moon Audio Black Dragon cables.

Headphone Rig
Audeze LCD-X Sennheiser hd 800 & Sennheiser hd 700 cans, Woo Audio WA-6SE with Sophia Princess & matched pair of 6GL7/6EM tubes Black Dragon Cable upgrades on the HD700s!

Streaming Dac Gear
includes K03, high-end custom built Toshiba core i7 16 gigs Wireworld Platinum USB cable, Ipad mini & Itouch driving media center 20 for full remote control anywhere on property and even via web to have music on when I get home Also can remote control MX150 via web too.

Analog Rig
VPI Classic II running with a Dynavector 20X2-H MC Phono Cartridge

Also
For living room and outside rear deck is connected to MX150 with (1)Parasound 5250 amp. Oppo 95 , Sony ES777, (2)PPPs,

Speaker system
Builder of custom very high end Dynaudio's 2 Main towers, 1 super tweeter Dynaudio built system above each tower, 4 surrounds all Dynaudio Esoteric drivers 6.5 mids, esoteric dome tweeters, 2 rear surrounds, and a custom 5 speaker 2 7" drivers, 2 3" domes, and a d21 tweeter in the center channel to compliment my 2 300lb custom subs and a JL F212

Misc Build Features
AC Power Electrical overview is 4 20 amp 120 circuits all 10-3 wiring extra shielding with walls custom modded with cross bracing 2x6s over a 14" thick concrete with R19 and weather barrier
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Old 04-08-2017, 06:26 PM
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Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is online now
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I prefer the computer route but you might also look at the Illusonic line: http://www.illusonic.com/audio-processors/iap-4/

FWIW, I really liked the DEQX but it has too few channels for me.
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Old 04-08-2017, 06:45 PM
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djwhog djwhog is offline
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I use both the computer too, but you will get to tell your amp what to really do so much more so with an active crossover. Really makes the bass drive as it should. That is how it is done by the pros.
__________________
Dave's Cave main Basement system
C500C C500T preamp and a MX150 control center, (3)McIntosh 601 mono block amps, (1)7270 McIntosh amp driving rears in 7.1 (1)Halo A23 amp for side surround, & (1)452 McIntosh amp for main towers part of a bi-amp setup with 601's, Esoteric K-03 JL F212 sub all glued together with mostly all WireWorld & Moon Audio Black Dragon cables.

Headphone Rig
Audeze LCD-X Sennheiser hd 800 & Sennheiser hd 700 cans, Woo Audio WA-6SE with Sophia Princess & matched pair of 6GL7/6EM tubes Black Dragon Cable upgrades on the HD700s!

Streaming Dac Gear
includes K03, high-end custom built Toshiba core i7 16 gigs Wireworld Platinum USB cable, Ipad mini & Itouch driving media center 20 for full remote control anywhere on property and even via web to have music on when I get home Also can remote control MX150 via web too.

Analog Rig
VPI Classic II running with a Dynavector 20X2-H MC Phono Cartridge

Also
For living room and outside rear deck is connected to MX150 with (1)Parasound 5250 amp. Oppo 95 , Sony ES777, (2)PPPs,

Speaker system
Builder of custom very high end Dynaudio's 2 Main towers, 1 super tweeter Dynaudio built system above each tower, 4 surrounds all Dynaudio Esoteric drivers 6.5 mids, esoteric dome tweeters, 2 rear surrounds, and a custom 5 speaker 2 7" drivers, 2 3" domes, and a d21 tweeter in the center channel to compliment my 2 300lb custom subs and a JL F212

Misc Build Features
AC Power Electrical overview is 4 20 amp 120 circuits all 10-3 wiring extra shielding with walls custom modded with cross bracing 2x6s over a 14" thick concrete with R19 and weather barrier
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2017, 07:38 PM
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwhog View Post
I use both the computer too, but you will get to tell your amp what to really do so much more so with an active crossover. Really makes the bass drive as it should. That is how it is done by the pros.
Active or not has nothing to do with whether you use a computer or if you use a flexible processor like the Illusonic. There are many ways...................
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:20 PM
Mike-48's Avatar
Mike-48 Mike-48 is offline
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Kal, Thanks for the pointer. I was not familiar with Illusonic; now I see you reviewed it in 2014. Seems too expensive for me, which makes one more datum telling me a cost-effective setup will probably involve a computer. The data are getting pretty hard to ignore, but for some reason, I keep resisting. Maybe I need "Acourate for Dummies."

I liked the DEQX, too, even without calibrating it, but the clanking relays were a deal-breaker. It also was enormously irritating that the instructions are opaque, and DEQX charges the user for help setting up a $5000 piece. Still, I thought the DAC was one of the best I've heard.

(BTW, I'm the same Mike who lived in NC and had a pair of Revel Ultima Studios.)

djwhog, Thanks for your suggestion. I notice that Sanders uses the DBX Venu360 in their top-end system. It's cheap enough to experiment with. My impression is that it has only analog outs; in other words, you have to use the built-in DACs. Is that right?
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Mike -- Portland, Oregon
Desktop system: JRiver Media Center, Lynx Hilo, Marsh A400S, Harbeth P3ESR, B&W ASW610 (sub)
Main system: Synology NAS, Auralic Aries, Mutec MC-3+USB, Classé CP-800, AVA Fet Valve 400R, Janszen zA2.1, 2xJL F112, acoustics by ASC, GIK, RPG, & Vicoustic
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:21 PM
doguniverse doguniverse is online now
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Do not worry about your Tact. The company is longer in business plus there no upgrades for that unit. I used to have a Tact 2.2 that I used in the car. Fantastic sound and clean, I did not have to worry about the reflection coming off the glass.
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Old 04-08-2017, 08:42 PM
Mike-48's Avatar
Mike-48 Mike-48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doguniverse View Post
Do not worry about your Tact. The company is longer in business plus there no upgrades for that unit. I used to have a Tact 2.2 that I used in the car. Fantastic sound and clean, I did not have to worry about the reflection coming off the glass.
I'm past worry, though I regret the cost of the unit and the progress payments I made for parts. I think that, with the upgrades promised to clocking circuits and power supplies, it would have been a pretty good unit today.

You used a Tact 2.2X in the car? Did you have an inverter to supply 110 VAC?
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Mike -- Portland, Oregon
Desktop system: JRiver Media Center, Lynx Hilo, Marsh A400S, Harbeth P3ESR, B&W ASW610 (sub)
Main system: Synology NAS, Auralic Aries, Mutec MC-3+USB, Classé CP-800, AVA Fet Valve 400R, Janszen zA2.1, 2xJL F112, acoustics by ASC, GIK, RPG, & Vicoustic
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Old 04-08-2017, 10:22 PM
doguniverse doguniverse is online now
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I changed out the AC power supply to DC. One of the best sounding cars I ever had. I used the Denon head unit, a lot of Brax amps, and Dynaudio speakers. I even entered into some car audio tournaments. I had add some JL audio subs to compete. I am also a Ham radio user, so I put the head unit of an Icom radio in the ashtray to hide it. All this was put in a 1999 BMW 740il.
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