Thread: My Last Hurrah
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I think you have made my point: I'm not sure such subs exist. I made this point to a good friend of mine. I have noted that the very large European super speakers and there are many of them come with built in subs. Wilson builds their own subs specifically for their large speakers in recognition of the point you have made. If you note I am not aware of generic subs like the Q15 or Q18 or the new Yg subs. I would be hesitant to use subs like these with other than their speakers. I don't have the luxury like you do but I can see how SF and the other manufactures have their big speaker demonstrated at the big European shows and it is without subs.

There are many advantages to Wilson's understanding of bass and it comes from Dave Wilson's long standing belief in the sub woofer. So he made his own for his own speakers and vice versa. I can tell you that in my meager room I can put on the Wilson sub disc and I have a little dip at 50 and a little peak at 40 and the response extends subjectively smoothly down to 20 and actually well below 20. The thing I like the best is the strong smooth upper bass which has nothing to do with my sub but with the Alexx. There is also zero worry about over loading the Alexx with a heavy low bass transient. It can't be done. Therefore, the Alexx is the perfect speaker for a sub but at the same time has a very adequate but not excessive 20-50 response range on it's own.

I'm afraid that the generic sub may not exist that would augment the Se17 (Fenice) successfully or the Aida 2. SF would have to engineer them and they haven't.

I could however argue that a speaker like the Se17 or Aida 2 with their built in subs can better integrate the bass range than with separate subs. A tri-amped Se17/Accuphase system (no separate sub) I am sure would have incredible bass and need no sub. It could be better integrated than the Wilson approach to the ultimate system. Ivan likes the SF sound. My opinion is that an ultimate SF system is competitive with the ultimate Wilson and then it is a matter of taste.
What I think is needed in these cases is a sub that can be actively crossed over and tuned for 2ch and/or HT if you will to compliment the speakers you are referring to an any others like this. 2 such subs exist;

The first fits the bill down to 16Hz when 2 are paired with their Wavelet RoomEQ active crossover

It also manual taper and blend controls on the back for adjustment by ear and meter that can be used in parallel with the processor (or no processor if you choose).

Specs are conservative, I have not found bass that this cannot reproduce.

I use 2 of these with my setup and Wavelet. The output is prodigious, musical and the fastest bass I have heard. The Wavelet actively compensates for every nuance of room amd speakers in both frequency and time domains.

The second can handle the biggest and most complicated of jobs with its active, parametric-EQ capable XILICA pro crossover processor down to 12Hz;

These are massive, musical and tuned specifically with a pro-grade crossover for seemingly any speaker's response curve via very sophisticated parametric-EQ capabilities the user customizes (Goliath) or active target function determinaton and optimization plus RoomEQ (Foundation).

AFAIK, other than vendor-specific subs that match certain models, these are the only ones with the processing and flexibility to solve the problems cited...
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