[Charles]

Originally Posted by jpgr4blu

About a decade ago, owned the MC2102 (100 WPC tube amp) and the Mac C1000 3 piece preamp with Wilson Watt Puppy 7s. I was determined to purchase the MC 2301 monos. When I went to my local dealer and listened to a full Mac system with my preamp and the 2301s , I was ready to buy. Then my dealer suggested swapping out the upper tier Mac electronics for a mid level Audio Research preamp and amp---just for a listen. I was a bit insulted at first --as I was a died in the wool Mac tube fan having owned a number of Mac components prior to my then current set up. I thought the salesman was a bit presumptuous to suggest that I might prefer an ARC system which I assumed he preferred at less than a third the price of mine.--I was astonished about how much better the ARC system sounded, especially in the midrange. I heard previously unheard detail on numerous test cds I brought with me. These were cds that I had listened to hundreds of times. I could count the background singers on one Van Morrison track when before they sounded as a massed group. I heard each individual voice and how the harmonies were constructed. This type of detail added to musical enjoyment. On another track from a David Byrne cd, I clearly heard low level detail in the midrange that I had never heard before. And the sound was not harsh, just revealing and much more transparent than Mac with greater tonal color and texture and a light touch of sweetness.
I went back home to my Mac system and listened again to those tracks paying particular attention to what I had heard earlier in the day at my dealer. But what I thought was missing in my Mac system was, in fact, still completely missing. The sounds were simply not there--masked by a slight scrim over the presentation that makes Mac easy on the ears but far from transparent.
I was upset at the time as I knew that I had to sell all of my Mac gear and go ARC. I started with the Ref 5 preamp which worked better than my Mac preamp with the Mac 2102. Over time, I completely converted to ARC starting with the Ref 110, the Ref 40-- then the Ref 150 and now the Ref 160 monos.
I will say, I still favor the sound of Mac gear with certain speakers such as B&W. Of course, others may hear all of the above differently than me and they would not be wrong.

I think your post deserves a reply but before I do I want to reiterate my feeling about any demo piece that leaves the store for an in home audition. In my mind it then becomes a used piece of equipment, no different than what is for sale on eBay. In some sense it becomes worse than a used piece that has been in a home. I for example take meticulous care of my gear.

If I were a manufacturer and I knew a dealer was routinely lending out his demos for in home auditions, I would not stand behind my warranty. The dealer would have to supply the warranty.

If you look up the resale value of the 2102 and the Ref 110 (I did), they are very comparable, being between 3-4k. Both received sterling reviews by respected reviewers. However, the 2102 pre-dates the Ref 110 by about 7 years. The retail for the 2102 is 6k, for the 110 about 9-10k. This is not opinion. It is fact.

It is not an infrequent occurrence on this website for an AR aficionado like yourself to have a very positive listening experience (audition) at a dealer and switch to AR from Mac. Ditto for Dags.

The 2102 was designed by Sidney Corderman and was a scaled down MC2000. The 110 was a scaled down version of the more powerful AR reference back in the day.

AR uses a very different circuit than Mac. Like Dan D' Agostino, William Johnson of AR was/is a genius. His memory lives on through the wonderful equipment AR continues to create. Ditto for Sidney Corderman of Mac. Both are recently deceased. Need I say more.

You have a wonderful system. Lot's of thought. Well put together.

However, for me personally, if I were going tubes and I had my choice not based on price but based on what I know concerning both companies and how to achieve the very best sound out of a Mac, it would be the 2301 for me, not the Ref 160. It wouldn't even be close. Ditto for the 1.25 KW and the Momentum.

The Mac/AQ/Wilson gear I use is very synergistic with each other. I believe I could achieve a similar result with two 2301's driving my XVX and would want the extra headroom over the 160's.

Now that's just me. I don't put much weight in anecdotal experiences and dealer auditions but I really enjoy reading about them and commenting on them. It's what makes the world go round in the high end.

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Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house