Hi guys, hi meril 555
again, it is not correct to calculate a SUT´s ratio with just not knowing how much of the complete gain structure of a given preamp is done with the SUT, and which of that gain is made by the active stages.
And the calculation method you described it is exactly that, what brings you to a complete wrong suggestion - and it did not get more correct, if we repeat it one more time - sorry ;-)))
You need to have the specs of the SUT!!!!!
You have to read my post again - as I mentioned the EMT JSD - I did that with a compatible SUT in mind.
The Output of a MC cart is one story, the turn ratio of a SUT designed for the EMT another - please read my first post again - there you will find, that EMT Carts need a 1:7 ratio - which will be less gain put into the actives stage of the RIAA than a Koetsu used with the internal MC section of the fantastic VR pre...
That example shows you that a cart, which has double the output of a Koetsu, can give less total output if you use a EMT compatible SUT with a turn ratio of 1:7, than a Koetsu with 0.5mV driven with a complete incompatible SUT - and till now unknown turn ratio (internal SUT of Shindo VR) - which was made for a Shindo SPU or real classic SPU´s with 2 or 3 Ohm internal impedance.
Now I come to the most strange - sorry for that - part of your last mail.
You really tell us, that a Koetsu Urushi and a Lyra Kleos have nearly the same resolution - that is something I can not understand.....
Which brings me to some more things....
The Graham is perfect for the Lyra Kleos - and it is everything else than perfect for the Koetsu!
A Koetsu needs a much more heavier arm than a Lyra.
The EMT has a compliance of 15 cu, a Lyra has 12 - that means the EMT has a higher compliance as a Lyra - which will work superb in your Graham - but a Koetsu does not!
To handle a Koetsu is nearly as special as handling a SPU.
If you ask me, a Koetsu needs a Fidelity Research FR64 or FR66 arm and - thank you Des W - a Cotter SUT - but keep in mind - there are different types of cotter SUT´s not all are made to work with a Koetsu.
Last but not least a Koetsu needs a player system with a lot of torque - like a Garrard 301 - or a lot of mass like a Micro Seiki 5000 or 1500.
The thing is - the Koetsu is a very classic and old design - they changed in the past some things, to be more compatible to what is available today - but none of the Koetsu dealers tells you the truth - how a Koetsu should be used, because the gear you need to let a Koetsu shine is not very common!
I see Koetsu carts in SME V or Linn arms - that will never work as it could be....
Coming back to Lyra versus Koetsu - both compared working under optimal conditions, you would never say, that they have identical resolution - and also not the same gestalt - I speak only of the wood Koetsu - not the stone ones!!!!
The Lyra has not a bump in the presence - the Koetsu has a dip there.
The Lyra is very neutral - the only thing it will show is a HF rise from 17Khz up.
The dynamic abilities of a Lyra are completely different to a Koetsu - and I do not say - one is better than the other - what I say is - that they both are on completely different sides of the spectrum.
It is like it is - we focus too much on single components - without thinking any further...
Some want a Koetsu - but do not think any further - that it will need a different arm, and a different sut - or it will not show it´s best performance on a linn.
Others wanted to have a Lyra - a cart which sends great energy into the arm - but they have a SME V oder IV in their systems - and the SME is very, very stiff (Armtube) it does not absorb the energy put into the arm, it reflects the energy - which means a Lyra sounds hard, aggressive and tot like it could sound in a Graham or Spiral Groove or Schröder arm.
To have that in mind, you can now understand a lot of sound descriptions at the web.
Lyra= cold, harsh, analytic, fast, dynamic....
Koetsu: slow, wooly bass, dark, lot of flow - great for vocals....
That is the typical description, you will find, letting you know - both carts, as described like above are used with wrong gear...!
Ad it is a little bit the same story with your complete system - Avantgarde - Lamm - Shindo - Koetsu .....
Why do you not try a Lamm RIAA stage together with a Lamm line stage - it would be something completely different, than the Shindo VR - but it is made to fit with Lamm amps???
It you want to go the Shindo way - than it is much more complicated - because a Shindo preamp is made for Shindo amps - they are made for high impedance speakers with great sensivity.
And the RIAA section of the VR is made with a classic original SPU in mind....
That SPU needs a different arm, than a Graham, and such an arm needs also a drive system, which is able to work with such an arm/cart combination.
You have fantastic components - but they give you at the moment not a good system - but you listen through a system not to single components.
So - you can try a Shindo amp as Junker said - but than you have in my opinion the wrong speakers - I agree completely with Jonathan - Avangarde is NOT a good match with Shindo!
@ Des W - thank you for your compliments - as I am an audio engineer (mixing / re recording engineer in film business ) I am used to dig a little bit deeper;-)))))
As I do also a lot of audio restauration work, especially vinyl - I am used to a lot of combination regarding drive systems, arms and carts ( I have here 13 different carts and 5 different arms, as also 5 different drive systems) - so what I try to write is not guessing - it is founded on a technical approach together with years of experience with vintage and modern technology.
My clients come from the record and film industry and also archives - If you do such work, it is most of the time the one and only restauration made to the material - so you have to be sure to get the most out of the material you have to work on. There will be no other instance to do it once again, better or in a different way.
As the material I work on, is a part of our culture (a lot of classic music) you feel a certain pressure on your shoulders to do it in the best possible way (which means to have a vinyl system, which brings most of the given information to a the digital world - I know it is a shame to make all the gerat analog recordings digital - but we live in a digital world - and it is maybe the only chance that the future generations can use it).
I use for the different jobs vintage and modern gear - and - very important - I always try to match the things in a compatible way!!!!!
I use drive systems like Platine, EMT, Commonwealth and Bauer DPS III, arms from EMT, Thomas Schick, Frank Schröder and Spiral Groove, and carts like SPU (vintage and new ones like Shindo SPU) DL 103, Lyra, Zyx, Dynavector, My Sonic Lab, EMT, Ikeda and the Tekeda Miyabi Standard - to name a few.
Preamps are used from Shindo, Air Tight, Klyne, Lamm and Nagra.
SUT from EMT, Neumann, Western Electric, Cotter, Hommage T1, Air Tight and a lot of custom wound SUT.
Over the years I learned that it is always the complete system which brings you the music - not one single component - a perfectly matched system of a lower price range can easily outperform a much more expensive system, which is not perfectly matched!!!!
The industry today leaves the customer in most of the cases alone - we have today nearly no standards in HiFi anymore - Preamps have different in and output impedance figures, which are only compatible to gear from the same company, carts and technical data is often hidden for the customer or is just half of the truth and so on....
Gear like Shindo is made with the idea in mind, people had in the past.
So you have preamps with classic impedance figures like the 600 Ohm standard from the past, amps which can handle that perfectly and also RIAA sections made for the classic carts of the time.
It is a completely different world of hifi, as we will find it most often today.
And that makes it not so easy to put single components of that special and wonderful world into the modern world.
If you leave the Shindo in it´s own world, than you will get more, much more out of the gear. That is a decision you have to make.
If you made it, than it means a lot of consequences - not much gear is out now, which is compatible with the world we had in the 50ties and 60ties - Shindo and also some other companies today bring you that sound again in todays world.
And before you think now - all the Shindo maniacs are all vintage freaks - that is just half of the truth.....
Listen to some vinyl from Mercury, DECCA and RCA Living Stereo - that was recorded in that particular time - and it is a sort of sound and aesthetic we lost over the years - so vintage does not always mean old or antique or outdated.
And that is the world of Shindo - it is a type of HiFi which takes the vintage approach to a new level - as it is written here and elsewhere maybe closer to the music, than a lot of modern systems can do - it is maybe also a matter of taste - because those systems put emotional impact over the last bit of resolution - because resolution deals more with our intellect - a wonderful tone, a big and saturated sound is something for our soul and heart.
And of course I simplify here - because it is much more complex than we can write down in a forum.....
Have a nice day
Ekki
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