Why Shindo gets almost no review ?
 

Hello friends,

I was searching for Shindo in Stereophile.
I found out that Art Dudley used the Corton Charlemagne EL34 monoblocks when reviewing both the Sophia 2 and the 3. He seems to love them : he did not even try those speakers with any other amp ! And Peter McGrath was with him.
Usually they try speakers with various amps.
As the Corton was the monoblock I was interested in the Shindo line, I'm a bit frustrated to see that they use an amp they love, since they test speakers with it, and they don't review it !
What the hell is that ?
Probably because Shindo does not pay them any ad.....:scratch2:
That does not give me the will to read the Hi-Fi press anymore. :icon_thumbsdown:

Have you check out Tone Import's website? There are several reviews. I found some of them to be good readings.

I've spend a few weeks researching this mystical brand and read all the reviews/road trips/forum threads I could find. From my search, the best way to enjoy Shindo is to go all Shindo from speakers to cables. Mixing and matching only "EQs" the sound, like Matt from Perfect Pitch Audio said in one of his blogs. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Shindo doesn't get a lot of reviews?

Hi Tommy,

I'm not so sure about that. Of course, a 100% Shindo system will give the full Shindo spirit, but I know a few people using only one Shindo component and being delighted with it.
Cellindo here uses a Monbrison preamp, with Cello power amps and Sasha speakers.
He told me that the Monbrison has a magic that he never found elesewhere.

I finally found this in Stereophile : Listening #55 Page 2 | Stereophile.com
Rather more a "listening" than a complete review of a product. But Art Dudley seems to be in love with the Shindo sound, except for matching them with Quad's.
All these reviews keep me thinking of :music: and I'm quite sure that if the Verdier 845 SET does not fit me, I will order the Corton EL34 monoblocks. And probably I will also order them even if I like the Verdier and buy them !

Hi Jerome,

I can assure you I wasn't saying Shindo doesn't sound good on its own. On the contrary, it seems to create magic wherever it goes, just not as magical as a full Shindo system.

I would also love to hear some Shindo, but it's not possible.

Jerome,

Here are some reviews for your reading pleasure. As Tommy said, there is a whole page of them at Tone Imports (the US importer of Shindo and Leben among other brands). Enjoy:

Tone Imports Product Reviews

Hey Cyril.
Thanks for the link.
That's not bad. I missed that.
My comment is still good when it comes to Stereophile. They seem to love them and they made a "review" more like an introduction to the different products, and not a detailed review of an amp they seem to love : the Corton EL34.
I'm biased I know, because I am interested in these blocks.

Jerome,

I don't believe that the lack of reviews in audio magazines does not have to do with advertising but, rather, with the fact that many of them require a minimum number of distributors (I remember reading "at least 5 US distributors" for Stereophile) to consider items for a full review.

But I consider Art Dudley's use of Shindo gear in his own system (despite the lack of full reviews) to be even more telling than any review :tresbon:.

Alberto

Nicely put Tommy.

Yes, given the $ and space (the speakers are big) a full Shindo system Shindo/Garrard 301 + Shindo Pre + Shindo power amp + Shindo Latour speakers would be very nice. I've heard it at Pitch Perfect Audio and it was magnificent.

But even a single component can bring magic.

Some anecdotal evidence:

My Shindo journey started with the Montille I "accidentally" found on Audiogon near my house. The guy who sold it to me had an Auriges preamp - I tried to buy it from him but he said "No way! It sounds too good. It's staying in my system." - and he was using it to drive a solid state Bryston amp in a system with components each costing several times more than the Auriges. The only reason he was parting with the Montille was that he needed more power for his speakers/room.

Having said that, for people without the room or $ for the Latour speakers, I think that the sweet spot is to have a Shindo pre and a Shindo power-amp.

If Jerome pulls the trigger on a pair of Shindo monoblocks, we'll know how they sound with the C1000 preamp.

Alberto

I got it Alberto !
Yes, if Art Dudley uses them, that's a strong indication of how much he loves them.
But I suppose that you mean "5 dealers" and not "5 distributors" :scratch2:

Yes, I meant 5 dealers.

Alberto

Shindo gets no reviews because mr halpern won't let anyone but art Dudley review them in the US. He's selling every box he can import and is happy with the current situation.

Next time I have a stack of 20's that I don't need I'll just buy one...

Then well see what's really going on.

I even offered to buy one at standard audio industry $$ and they wouldn't even sell me one. That sounds mighty fishy....

Interesting Jeff !
But what would be their interest in acting like this ?

Mr halpern is a very nice guy, I spent time talking to him at the Montreal show...

But if you've got a good thing, you certainly want an unknown coming in and potentially damaging your distribution model. While I understand this, I think it is very shortsighted long term.

Seriously, I'll get my hands on one this year and see if it passes muster or not...

I am also curious about the Corton-Charlemagne EL34 amps, and have been unsuccessfully trying to find any reviews or owner experiences, in particular to determine whether it or the Cortese would be most suited to an Altec 604 based setup (or if I should stick with my Montille EL84).

Due to my location it's also very hard to demo or hear either amp in my system, so I share you frustrations Jerome.

Omodo,

Welcome to the forum.

I own a Montille and a Cortese. Here's a link to my initial review of the latter.

The Montille is a great amp - I am not selling mine. But the Cortese is the amp I've been waiting for all my audiophile life. It's voiced just right for my tastes. I am going to make a leap and guess that it would sound amazing with your Altecs. If I had the room for them, I would love a pair of Altecs.

There is something VERY special about the sound of SET - I can't get enough of it. It's addictive to the point that my wife is starting to complain about me spending too much time listening to music :D. Never fatiguing and it makes even poorly recorded music sound good.

With previous setups, about 30% of my record collection did not sound good without some tone controls (harsh highs or thin bass) - I thought I'd never be able to live without a preamp with tone controls. The Cortese changed all that.

A few days ago - just for kicks - I put the Montille back in the system. It sounded great, but after a few tracks I was longing for the delicious midrange, smoother highs and incredible bass of the Cortese.

If you have the speakers for it (i.e. high efficiency) I can't recommend the Cortese highly enough.

I hope this helps and, again, welcome to this amazing forum!

Alberto

Welcome to AA omodo :wave:

The plot thickens...

Now, I've received word from Mr. Halpern that I am to "follow their wishes" and not review an amplifier or preamplifier at all. They say that it has to be used in a "Full System" or it can't be evaluated properly. Really.

Don't like that either.
Thanks for the info Jeff.

It's really too bad actually. Whenever I've heard Shindo at shows, it's always been pleasant, and I tend to like things a bit on the warm and romantic side, though perhaps not quite as "delicious" as our pal Alberto.

So, Shindo will remain the great mystery....

That is surely their will.
Rare reviews create probably more desire than many reviews.
Hidden beauties are the most wanted ones...

Agreed, provided the reality meets the mystery...

:)

The Shindo brand
 

I purchased a Haut Brion amp & Masseto preamp a few years ago. The US distributer, Jonathan, was very interested in what speaker I was going to use as the Haut's performance would be hindered in a big way with speakers of a difficult load. I am glad he steered me in the right direction. Shindo is about a "system approach", not mix and match, however their amps & preamps are mated to many other speaker brands with great success, such as Audio Note, Devore Solovox to name a few. The owners of entry level Shindo amps cant we expected to spend $25k for a pair of Shindo Petite Latours. They also highly recommend Shindo or Auditorium interconnects and speaker cables, which from my experience are excellent. I have received superb service and advice from Jonathan.

Yes the brand is becoming a bit of an exclusive club, but that just furthers the pride of ownership in my mind. The other thing to remember is that Shindo products are produced is very low volumes, unlike CJ, Mac, AR. Does Shindo really need more positive news in the market place....no!...its already there. All their products are outstanding, just a bit different flavour, and more "there" as you move up the line.

Alberto, Jerome, thanks for the welcome..

It was actually your review of the Cortese that led me to joining this site - great review btw. The Cortese is probably the option I am leaning towards at this point in time, but I would still love to find more info/reviews/impressions of the C-C EL34 before making a commitment - unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any other Shindo owners in my neck of the woods so getting to demo either option, in my system or otherwise, is unlikely to happen..

Where is your neck of the woods?

Alberto

Well, when one of you guys puts together an all shindo system, I'll take you to dinner in exchange for a listen...

Jeff,

I was going to offer before. While not an "all" Shindo system... I am pretty close.

You are welcome to come listen anytime for as long as you like. I will leave you the keys while I go to work and you can listen to you hearts content.

Stephen
Santa Barbara CA

Next time I'm in CA, let's get together....

Stephen,

When you'll get your Shindo speakers, I will buy a ticket to LA and come to visit you !

Jeff, if you come to Paris in september, you'll be probably very surprised to hear what a 20W 845 SET amp is able to :thumbsup: !

Jerome, better make that "first class ticket" for the very special occasion. :yes:

Jeff, Jerome, Serge, and any others...

You are most welcome to come to my modest little home and hear what the Shindo is giving me.

After listening to Neil Young sing for two hours last night in very good seats, I came home and put on Live at Massey Hall and felt as if I were still at the venue listening to Neil sing and play that old Les Paul Gibson.

My system is giving me the most realistically presented music that I have ever dreamed of.

Hum....
Serge, a first class ticket from Paris to LA could cost the price of the Shindo Latour speakers ! I think that I will stay in business :D !

I'm late to the party on this topic but thought I'd share my $.02.

While I love my Shindo gear and have nothing but good things to say about my dealer (Matt at Pitch Perfect) I do wish they were more open and transparent regarding criteria around reviews. Why is it that Art Dudley and Jack Roberts seem to be the only ones reviewing the equipment? Are there any stipulations regarding the reviews themselves? What kind of discounts do Dudley and Roberts receive on the gear if they decide to buy it? I know I'm living in a dream land but I think both Manufacturers and Reviewers should be completely forthcoming on these issues.

I think that "industry accommodation" prices (which I suspect are at 50-60% of retail) is common for all reviewers and applies to most brands they review.

Considering their size when compared to the giants of the audio industry, I think that Shindo gets more than adequate coverage.

Alberto

PS Sibelius, great list of gear you have there! Welcome to AA.

Agree with you that given the limited production quantities of Shindo gear, they don't need reviews to help them with their business. Still wish at least some review mags/cites would be more up front. Not sure what the current environment is, but in the old days I heard it was not uncommon for manufacturers to have right of refusal for review copy.

Thanks for the welcome. Always enjoy communicating with fellow Shindo owners.

You can add Jeff Day and Jules Coleman as somewhat regular reviewers as well.

As far as refreshing and transparent, Jeff Day's had a pretty negative footnote about Ken Shindo's lack of response over several months which caused a delay in his publishing of the article even though his review of the gear itself was favorable.

Thanks adhesiv. I do remember reading these guys when doing research. If I remember correctly these reviews are all at least a few years old now. It could be I'm wrong but I believe the only recent (last 12 months) reviews have been Art and Jack. I do remember the lack of response comments. If I remember correctly, Jonathan Halpren chimed in and blamed it on Shindo's lack of English and asked that all future inquiries get funneled through him. It also appears that at least in the US Shindo has stopped going to trade shows. I was kind of disappointed that Pitch Perfect was not at the last two California Audio Shows given that the shows were essentially in Matt's back yard. I understand that hotel suites are not the best environment to show off gear but still would have been nice to see and talk to Matt and other Shindo owners and hear about potential new products coming down the pike.

Again, thanks for the reminder on Jeff and Jules. My memory is not as good as it once was.

I've got mixed emotions on the show appearances, it's always nice to see and talk with other fellow gear owners/distributors about current and future setups.

That said, I've heard Matt is super accommodating though and I'm certain the experience is much better at his place than any trade show.

As Alberto mentioned as well there is something to the limited availability status of these pieces and it's been said many times that Ken thinks of his pieces more as art rather than a consumer product which lends better to a gallery (ex. dealer) type setting (right lighting, music, environment etc.) than a noisy and rambunctious trade show where "critics" walk around with a notepad scoring HiFi criteria.

I haven't even received my pieces yet so I'm still holding judgement but you can be certain I will share with all and compare the best I can with my other experiences. Just note that I'm relatively an infant in this hobby at only 30! I did get started early though at 18 with a Counterpoint/placette/Maggie system

Jayson

Very true regarding Matt and presentation. Without a doubt he has the best commercial listening room I've ever been in. Not only is the sound great but the ambience is wonderful as well with the lighting and furniture. Add in the fact that he only takes appointments and can give you his undivided attention and you have a great combination that obviously sells very well. Only downside is that "doing it right" costs money and thus the Shindo prices. I'm glad I'm one of the lucky ones that has been able to afford these "art" pieces. On the other hand I wish more people got exposed to hearing Shindo gear so they could get off the audio merry go round and hear what vintage inspired pieces can really sound like.

+1...

Dave

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

I've given up on the Shindo thing. They really don't want anyone other than Art Dudley to review their gear and their importer has made it clear that even if I were to buy Shindo gear AT RETAIL, I'm to "respect their wishes" and not write about it.

Really? Last I heard this country still had freedom of speech.

I've heard enough Shindo over the years to be intrigued and I certainly think the warm/romantic/delicious/whatever sound is a good idea, especially considering how mediocre most records are recorded.

But I still see this as a major cult of personality. It's well built gear, but not all that much different than very old McIntosh, Marantz etc etc in terms of sound. If you think I'm kidding, listen to a pair of MC30's, or a Marantz 8B. Very close in sound.

There is really only so much that can be done with a classic tube circuit. It can be voiced anywhere from warm to neutral to cold and everyone has their take on what it should sound like.

I guess I don't understand what they are so afraid of.

On one level, it's just like Ferrari in the sense that they keep the production low and the mystique high to keep the demand and the price high as well. Nothing wrong with that. And they are truly pieces of art, which is also cool.

So, it's just not in the cards for me to buy a full Shindo system at retail just so I can write a review about it. As it is not supposed to be used with other gear, so that the magic is not lost, it's pretty much useless as reference equipment. Maybe when I retire!

For what it's worth though, my ARC and Burmester gear works fine with every other mfr's gear that I've mixed it up with... Same with the CJ stuff. The ACT 2 and Premier 350 definitely have a synergy, but they both work great with other gear as well.

Food for thought.