Levinson Reliability???
 

Fellas,

I have a question for you all.

I have an opportunity to pick up a Levinson 433 that would meet my needs very well. It is from an authorized dealer, full warranty, and has functioned flawlessly since 2008 as a demo. Perfect condition.

My question is. I know the 3xx Levinson amps had cap problems, but are the 4xx amps reliable? It seems that some have failed, but I have not heard of any 433 issues, as these were designed after the 431, 432, and 436.

Thanks for the info.

Tim

I had the ML 332 amplifier and it's matching preamp for review many years ago and never had any problems. Know that's an anectodal report worth publishing :)

The Levinson 43X series amps were all based on the Proceed HPA 2/3/5 series amps. When Madrigal shut down the Proceed HT division the HPA series of amps all underwent very minor revisions and became the Levinson 43X series. These amps had very tight operating tolerances and generally require servicing from a knowledgeable tech on a somewhat regular basis. They are excellent amps and are very dynamic. If you do buy the 433 and run into an issue I have the HPA schematics that I could send to you. From my experience this series of amps has no cap problems.

Thank you.

I just sold the HPA5 to upgrade, so that may rule out the 433.

Back to the Drawing Board!

It's always interesting to have a look under the 'hood....

First the Levinson...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...de-chassis.jpg

And then the Proceed...

http://www.audiovision.dk/Madrigal/P...ohL_top_v1.gif


In the case of the Levinson instead of having the toroidal transformers mounted sideways (as was done in the Proceed HPA) they instead mounted the transformers in a more conventional upright manner. When they did this they also eliminated the shielding that the Proceed used to cover the transformers and they also shortened the length of the internal heat sinks to accommodate the less efficient use of space. According to my friend who worked there, this made those amps much easier (read less expensive to build) but not necessarily an improvement over the HPA…..

I have a ML335 and HPA3 that continue to work great going on 11 years. The 335 did have the caps replaced under warranty...I think this was a isolated component/design issue as almost all of the 33x amps needed this fix. Both amps are built like tanks and sound great. Alas I am going to put both up for sale as the 5.1 system they were in now uses ARC amps. A ML 390S and Proceed AVP2( as DAC) are the last 2 components from Madrigal I use...in the gym and BR systems. Others I have owned with no issues 38, 380S, 360S and Proceed PDP3/PDT3, PMDT(the PMDT was a flawed product ahead of its time...and its software)

I really miss not being able to call Rose when I needed help

I will likely regret selling amps but would rather buy more music than keep equipment in boxes.

Über...I think the HPA3 is much better sounding than the HPA5... So don't completely rule out.

I have been very disappointed with ML's latest products(and Lexicon) and feel the company has slowly descended to high priced mediocracy since the Harmon ownership

Have a ML27 that needs filter capacitors, ML sent me to their service company, they will not sell parts to a repair shop, they said send it in to us for repair, with a big deposit. Not happy with support, non existent!!!!

I once had the ML335 with the infamous cap problem. Levinson took care of it. There is no other problem during the time I owned it. I opened the unit and found it's impossible for anyone else to service than the authorized repair center. The driver stage in the 335 is more complicated than that of the ML380s Preamp.


Terry,

Levinson is like every other Big Name Companies. They do not sell parts to the customers direct. I think this is the same for every other Big Name Brands when it comes to service / repair. Even if levinson provide you the parts, the chances are the regular technicians can't cope with the complicated repairs it may require.

I am not sure about the 2x series but the 33x and 33 have very complicated circuits that requires complicated test equipments to troubleshoot and adjust. Some repair shops may be able to handle it but I think many mom and pop repair shops aren't up to the task.

AP,

Email sent.

Tim

Lakesailor,

If you would be so kind to share your schematics for the HPA, I would be highly appreciative. This is purely precautionary as my HPA 3 has performed flawlessly but eventually, the caps will need attention.

TIA... Sonicbath.

sonicbath, welcome aboard! :wave:

Hello Lakesailor,

I own two Proceed HPA 3 (original owner), and have a problem with one of the amps. In my country, the Harman Kardon dealership has changed three times in the past five years. As you can imagine, the actual dealer does´nt even know the Proceed brand. I have a local technician that repairs amps but the schematics are needed. I would like to know if I can get this information from you.

Thank you,

eadomin

Hi, I've got an HPA 2 and it started going into protected mode. I have narrowed it down to the #2 amp board. Do you still have the schematics to the HPA? If so, could you share them with me? Thanks, Jim

Lakesailor,

I also would be very appreciative to have the HPA schematics. I currently have an HPA3 here on my bench that I am repairing and service information would most certainly be welcome.

Thank you in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Ron

Hello people, I know this subject is about ML but my question about its younger brother Proceed AMP5 which I have 2/5 died. Need your help and advice on how to fix.

kosscher... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Thank you Masterlu! I promise to be a good guy.
BTW, you have very familiar to the Russian year name. :music:
Sorry for off topic

http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/stu.../4-29-13-b.jpg

:D

I have one more question, if some one can help me with the answer.
What is the power capacitors spec in proceed hpa2/hpa3. Amp5 is 17000mF and 90v, 35mm diameter and 120mm height.

Hello Lakesailor,

This may be beating a dead horse, but I too would like a copy of the Proceed HPA schematic, if you're still around. I have an HPA3 that has two channels not working and it has been pretty much mothballed for a couple years now. Before sending it in to a service center (I've used Pyramid in the past) I would really like to take a look at it myself in case the problem is something simple. The prices I've seen for fixing these things service centers are a little scary. Any information I can glean before actually tearing into it would be helpful. Thanks

oldaudioman, welcome aboard! :wave:

oldaudioman... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Thanks,

Been wanting to resurrect my HPA for a couple years now but dragging my feet, mostly due to cost and a pain to ship. I happened on this site and now feel it may be worth looking at myself and either way, given me incentive to "git 'er done".

Can I revive an old tread ?

I just got a Proceed HPA 2 amp , That seems to run too hot , like bias set too high , odd as well both sides the same.

What I need is setup system from service manual to redo bias or at least test.

Can you please supply info from manual ?

It is a beast to move at around 100 lbs....

THX
Brian

Krazyclocks... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Brian... this is a Levinson thread, hi-jacking is not permitted on AA. You have a 10 post minimum before you can start your own thread.

Or, you can become a Subscriber here, and post threads immediately:

http://www.audioaficionado.org/payments.php

As a former Proceed owner, I would give him a pass given they were made by Levinson before being discontinued. I'm just a lowly subscriber though...I'll go back into my hobbit hole :)

:laughin:

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/oogg1.jpg

Lakesailor,
I would really appreciate if you could send me the schematics
for the HPA. I own a HPA5 that is defective on 2 channels and i really
like the sound of the amp as the 3 other channels work flawlessly.

Regards Christian

I just picked up a 331 in excellent shape, for $1800. I only afterwards heard about the "cap problem". I don't know if this one ever had the cap(s) replaced or not.

Anything I can do to prolong the caps if they haven't been replaced?

thanks

If you're really concerned you could send it in to one of the Levinson repair centers for an evaluation. That way if any of the caps were about to fail then maybe you could prevent a larger issue down the road. That said, I had an older Levinson dac and transport that were over 10 years old when I bought them and said to have lots of problems... the units I had performed flawlessly for 3 years before I sold them. I would probably just relax and enjoy!

George

Brad - That’s a really nice amplifier, I would’ve given anything to have been able to afford one of the 3 series Levinson amplifiers back in the mid 90’s. As far as the capacitor issue, I would venture to say if it’s lasted this long without any bad caps, you may have been lucky and may not have any issues other than aging. It’s been my understanding that the failure rate was so high it’s unlikely that it would have made it to 2018 without either replacement or just plain out good fortune. That being said, sending it in to an authorized repair center would confirm it’s up to spec.

- Buck

Levinson Reliability???
 

If the caps are bad on either side, you will know it. In the 333 I repaired for my buddy, it was very obvious. Crackling...

The repair itself took an afternoon and cost about $800 for the new caps from Cornell Dublier in North Carolina purchased from Mouser electronics.

There is a thread here where I outline the process.

Thanks for the replies. I had the same thought, if it made it 20 years or so, it probably either had them replaced in the past, or (knock on wood) isn't going to have that issue.

I have been piecing together my system for 30 or so years. Upgrading here and there, when I find a good deal, usually from the used market. This is my 1st component of this caliber, and I am very pleased to have it. I traded it for a pair of Bryston 7BST monoblocks, that I had recently picked up for $1600, and $200 cash. Before that, I was using a HK Citation amp.

Anyway, thanks again. I will likely just roll the dice, and use it as long as I can. If I still have it in 10 years, I will consider sending it in for a refurb at that point. I have heard they charge a lot to service the MLs...

From my experience, a lot will only cover about half of the cost.

I think near or north of $2,000. The caps alone are about $800.

Yikes...

Only paid $1800, and 331/332/334/335 can be found fairly easily for ~$2000-$2400. I think I am better off just seeing how long it lasts. The HK Citation 5.1 (that's the model #) amp I used for a long time is a great amp, in a pinch I can buy one of those for under $500 and still be happy with my system.

I had a repairman who had worked for an ML dealer who offered to do my 331 as a preventative measure for $600 (including caps). He had done a number of them. This was about 15 years ago. I did not take him up on his offer, since I'd had no trouble. Sold the amp last year. Light use. Still no trouble.

brad1138 - too bad you are not a subscriber. Could probably hook you up with a good tech or two that could do any needed work for a reasonable cost. With no address shown, one could be just down the block.

I just joined, can't access personal info yet, or create my own threads....