Ain't that the truth...this was all really a situation of chance. Still i bit the bait hard :thumbsup:

GISCOURS, 10x thumbs up. That should be a world of marvelous musical enjoyment.

Congrats on the Giscours!! It's my very favorite piece of electronics ever (moved up from the Masetto and Vosne Romanee).

Congratulations on the new Giscours. I'm still waiting for my Vosne, but maybe one day I'll jump up from there...

Adhesiv...congrats on your purchase, the Giscours is a fine piece of audio beauty.

Dave

Jayson, Congratulations! You'll love it.

I listened to Jack Robert's Giscours at Matt's Greenhaus. It is definitely full of music!:yes:

Is there a price list of these goodies somewhere?

Never seen a published price list on Shindo gear.

I have not seen one either. Contact the dealer who handles Canada and they will be happy to help. If you don't know who the dealer is contact Tone Imports (Distributor) and they should be able to hook you up to the right folks. Shindo dealers (mine is Matt of Pitch Perfect in San Francisco) have always been very responsive and eager to help with no sales pressure.

Has anyone tried Nordost speaker cable with Shindo amp?

upgrading shindo amp
 

Hi all,

I have a masseto and montrachet driving a pair of devore silverbacks. Music from my audio grail refurbished Garrard301 in a custom made 5 layer solid cherry wood plinth with sme3012/denon103/bob's devices step up sounds wonderful but always feel that music from my oppo bdp95 do not quite match up. I have been considering an upgrade to the lafon gm70 but do not quite like the new looks of the amp,another part of me would like to try the shindo western electric 300B amps but my silverbacks may not be efficient enough?
How long do tubes like the Gm70 or even the precious 300Bs last? Would appreciate any inputs, thanks.

Tristan

My understanding is the Silverbacks are around 90db. The 8W 300B's may not be enough power for you - depending on what you listen to, volume level and room size. My speakers are more efficient than yours (97db) and while my 300B (Non Shindo) works great for Jazz and vocals, I find I want more power when playing larger orchestral works. I have a GM70 amp (again Non-Shindo) and find it works very well for orchestral works. The GM70 and 300B are completely different sounding tubes. The GM70 has a big, bold sound that puts you on the stage with the performers. Soundstage is huge and presence is amazing. The 300B on the other hand has a warmer midrange which is to die for and captures more of the nuance and flow in the music.

As far as tube life, the WE300B's should last 10,000 hours + as long as they are run within their operating range. The GM70's will also last a long time. Shindo operates the GM70's very conservatively which will add even more to there longevity. While NOS 300B's will cost an arm and a leg, GM70 tubes are much more affordable and a pair of either Graphite (better bass) or Copper (better midrange) plated tubes can be easily picked up on ebay for around $100 - $300 a pair.

Tristan, welcome aboard! :wave:

Tristan - Scott gave you a wonderful answer in regards to what to expect from the 300Bs and GM70s. In my home and with my setup and what I listen to, the 300Bs made more sense to me. That being said I have been in other environments where the GM70's just smoked the 300Bs. I know, not very helpful eh? The good news is there is no wrong answer - they both sound wonderful in every environment I have heard them in.

But to your other question in regards to the sound of your vinyl playback system versus your OPPO BPD 95, well I am not sure an amp change is going to tip the balance. I have a modified Garrard 401 with Lignolab plinth, EMT tonearm and cartridge and a A23 SUT and the sounds of vinyl on my system is much much better than the sound of either CDs or SACDs played thru my older generation OPPO BPD 83.

The system that I had when making that comparison is a Masseto and Cortese into DeVore O/96s. Now depending on the CD/SACD some stuff does sound wonderful. However the vinyl is nine times out of ten warmer and fuller bodied.

Just my humble opinion.

Barr

Tristan... Welcome To AA!!!


:welcome2.:

Upgrading shindo amps
 

Thanks for the warm welcome. I really appreciate the valuable input from Scott and will probably go for the gm70s if I can get one of the older models from the dealer here. The Montrachet is rated at 15watts into 8ohms which is the impedance on my silverbacks and sounds a little congested at high volumes. Hopefully with the 8ohm tap on the gm70s, the 20 illuminated single ended watts will shine through my silverbacks.

Hi Barr
Looks like our vinlyl set is quite similar, it's amazing that a 57year old garrard 301 in the correct plinth can outshine any modern tables out there. That is also why I did not want to invest too much in digital but in vinyl playback. Hope to be getting a 90th anniversary spu but have always wondered if I should go for the older models of spu? Would also like to invest in a Emt xsd 15. Any opinions on how the internal sut in the masseto will fare with the spu I am considering. I do also have a bob's devices blue 1131 which bob optimized for a denon 103 and with a switch to accept the spu that I am considering

Warm regards
Tristan

The Lafon GM70s should sound great through the Silverbacks! Do you want one of the older models due to size issues or budget considerations?

Barr

Well I have a EMT 997 tonearm on my 401 and it is paired with an EMT TSD15 cartridge. I am using the A23 Step Up Transformer - the one designed for EMTs, Denon 103 and Shelter cartridges. I have heard the Shindo SPU but couldn't provide a direct comparison of it to the EMT. I do know that while the Shindo SPU would work fine with the MC input on the Masseto without need for a SUT, most users seem to use a SUT and connect into the MM input on the Masseto. I think other users on this forum, or a Shindo dealer could provide you better guidance than I.

Upgrading to lafon gm70
 

Hi Barr,

Prefer the older model of the lafon gm70 over the new boxy look, so just a matter of style rather than size or budget but if there isn't a choice then will order one brand new. Guess its a matter of taste but I do find the older models of cortese, haut brion and my very own Montrachet to be more attractive looking.

Tristan

Tristan,

It's a designed match. Further, I think the internal SUT with low impedance cartridges like SPU, Myabi, etc... are ideal because Shindo implements such a low-noise solution as AD mentions below (and no extra cables needed).

Stereophile AD -Listening column

From Art Dudley on internal SUT in the Masseto:

"Shindo Masseto stock input transformer: The phono section of the Shindo Masseto preamplifier ($11,500, reviewed in my July column) uses 6189W and 12AT7 dual-triode tubes to provide enough gain for sources that produce 3mV and up. For everything else, an extra pair of switch-selectable input jacks addresses a pair of step-up transformers: Lundahl amorphous-core units similar to the ones described above, but designed by Ken Shindo and custom-wound in Sweden. Each has a 1.1 ohm input resistance and a 508 ohm output resistance, with a tiny 11k ohm resistor added in parallel to the output pins of the trannie itself.

The Masseto's stock trannie didn't sound good when I first tried it with my Denon DL-103, but that was before I knew any of those specs—and way before I knew that Ken Shindo designed the Masseto around his own modified version of the very-low-output, very-low-impedance Ortofon SPU. No wonder...!

Since then I've used a few more reasonable cartridges with the Shindo's own trannie—including the Miyabi and Koetsu and a newly borrowed Linn Akiva—and while better performance can be had, the stock unit is good enough that the average Masseto owner could cheerily ignore other transformers if he or she wished. My Miyabi especially loved the thing: The combination had loads of texture, and enough drama to keep me happy indefinitely. Best of all, the Masseto's stock trannie was quiet in every way: no hum, and much less groove noise than average. "

Plink... Welcome To AA!!!


:welcome2.:

Plink, welcome aboard! :wave:

Welcome Plink! :)

:welcome2.:Plink!
______________

Jean-Claude

Consensus on best phono stage for SPU seems to be the Auditorium Hommage but it will put you back another $5K. Can confirm the internal phono of Masseto and VR is extremely quiet. What you would gain with the Hommage is larger soundstage and a more exciting presentation. The internal Lundahl SUT's used in the Shindo preamps are a bid more subdued in comparision.

Has anyone had the experience of trying the Shindo MC stage with a Miyajima Shilabe? I have one and was wondering how they would mate up?

Impedance 　About 16 ohms (About 0.23mV output)

16 Ohm in the Shilabe seems on the high side for the Shindo SUT.

The Lyra Delos (internal impedance is 6.3ohm) is an excellent match to the SUT in the Monbrison/Massetto etc. On the other hand, my Allaerts MC1B with 22Ohm impedance requires the A23 step-up (DL103 high impedance version).

Yeah, theoretically I know that. But to quote Bobs Devices, "The deal on impedance is that it is not that important with SUTs. Voltage match is what is critical. Having said that, once you make the voltage match, you should look at the reflected impedance. You want it to be about 10-times the internal impedance of the cartridge. Now that is not a hard number, it could be 8-times and be fine, and sometimes 4-times can sound great. The important part is that more headroom is better. A lot depends on the characteristics of the phono preamp. Typically if you have enough headroom with impedance, the natural characteristics of the cartridge will be apparent. So, if you have a "bright" sounding cartridge, you may want to have a lower impedance at the cartridge, but if you have the impedance too low, it may sound muddy and flat."

Interestingly, my Shilabe sounds muddy and flat with my 1:10 Jensen SUT, so was wondering about other non-SPU carts used with the Shindo MC stage?

My non-SPU carts are Koetsu Onyx Platinum and Lyra Helikon Mono. I've tried both with the internal MC stage of my Masseto and now VR but prefer separate SUT's. My favorite with the Koetsu are Bob's devices 1131 Cinemag (Blue label) and Choir Audio SUT-H7 (Top of line Hashimoto SUT). I use a heavily modified EAR 384 for my mono lyra. The Shindo stage will work but I have not found it optimal with either of these cartridges.

Oh, does anyone know what the step-up ratio is on the Shindo's SUT?

I was looking at Bob's 1131 Blue with interest.

I had a mate's hot-rodded EAR 834P for quite a while, but ended up preferring my Vacuum State over it. The EAR was more 3D, but VS has more detail and extension, with excellent tonality.

Wow - just looked at the Choir SUT-H7, and it looks superb. How would you compare/contrast that unit to the 1131 Blue?

I really like both but would give the Choir/Hashimoto the nod with the Koetsu. The famous Koetsu midrange tone is fleshed out a bit more with the Hashimoto while the 1131 might have a tad bit more extention. I also prefer the build quality of the Choir.

Once my refurbed Garrard 301 is complete, the Choir is going to be used exclusively with my Koetsu on my Nottingham table and I am planning to pair the 1131 with my Ortofon SPU/Garrard.

I bet the Koetsu would sound mighty fine on the 301 as well.

I have a 401/Schick combo and I will get my mates Vermilion (he hates me now because I 'forced' him to buy an Auriges a couple years ago and now he has a Monbrison :-) to try out next week along with a very nicely done DaVinci Grandezza inspired knock-off another guy I know makes.

And yesterday I just repaired a Luxman AD8000/8030 that I will give a go.

No doubt you've thought of Sinhonias...I'm quite happy with mine paired with the S'backs. I haven't heard the Montrachet yet, so unfortunately I can't offer much of a comparison. I have heard S'Backs with the Cortese (10W) and although it sounded great with smaller scale music, but I was concerned it would be somewhat limited the choice of music genres (it didn't quite have enough power for rock & orchestral) -which kind of defeats one of the nice parts of owning a full range speaker like the S'backs.

I´m also thinking of upgrading my Shindo Montille El84 amp to something with a little more power so I can drive my Devore 9´s. I have a Leben RS28cx Pre-amp and I´m trying to get hold of a Monbrison (the old model which has the output transformers), but its not easy in europe. I´ll guess I have to buy a 110 volt and use a transformer..

it seems like the Devore 9´s likes a little more than the montille´s 15 watt. I really like the 9´s and want to keep them so I propably need to upgrade my amp, but which one... I mainly listen to alot of 60´s and 70´s rock and also some jazz and alot more.. .

yes this is my first post and i hope that I don´t hijack your thread..

cheers
Daniel

Hi and welcome to AA, Daniel.

The Monbrison you are mentioning above is the one I have at home (first old serie, with two 12AU7 on the line stage and two 12AX7 on the phono stage, and the output transformer). It's a very nice piece of audio equipment indeed. :banana:
I had to wait a couple of years to find one in France which was just "as new" (actually it was really NEW, from a hifi collector guy). Be patient et and the reward later will be even larger.

I recently upgraded from the Montille to a lower wattage amp (Cortese 8w) and feel the performance is excellent. I don't think I'm maxing out the Cortese at all and while the Montille is a very nice amp the Cortese just wipes the floor with it on the Nines. I guess my point is the wattage isn't really the issue it's just not the best match for the Nines.

Hi everybody, my humble experience with Shindo amps and preamps taught me that the expression "upgrade" is often inappropriate as it is not a matter of "more" (power, bass, body...) or "bigger" (soundstage, amplitude...).
I would rather talk about "kind of" : character, personality, flavour, tonality...

And it is a question of combination of the different elements of the (hifi) chain; I once wrote in a french forum that a Shindo (pre-)amplifier is not a magic potion that will make every system invincible.
But once you have got the right chain, you have access to musical happiness.