McIntosh and Martin Logan
 

I decided on the Martin Logan Theos as best choice considering my room. I was considering the Martin Logan ElectroMotion, Magnepan MG1.7 or MG3.7.

Since my room is 10ft wide x 20ft long, it is not possible to have the Magnepans 2 feet away from side wall as they be to close together.

Reason to choose Theos instead of ElectroMotion is that panel area 44" x 9.2" instead of 34" x 8.6" of ElectroMotion.

One concern I do have is regarding using McIntosh MC302 amplifier. Since the McIntosh uses output autoformers, does this effect how well the MC302 will work with Martin Logan ESLs? Is the 2 ohm tap best choice? or should I use the 4 ohm tap? What is the min impedance of the Theos?

Dan

Dan, like all M/L stats they dip mighty low albeit inversely, less than 1 ohm at the top of the freq range. I can't say how well your Mac 302 will handle the load, expirement between the two taps and let us know...........

Experiment but I use the 4 ohm tap. The autoformer is an impedance matching device and most ML products are rated for 4 ohm. It dips down to .7ohm at 20khz. There is very little musical content at that frequency to cause a problem. I am using MC402 to drive ML Vantages in a much larger room in a mixed HT/2-channel setup. I will go deaf before the amplifier clips. You will be fine with 300wpc.

Also, you should place the ML speakers 3-4 feet from the wall or look into room treatments.

Let us know which tap sounds better. I have a pair of Ethos and I ordered a pair of MC 601's and they also have the 2, 4 and 8 ohm tap.

Although I am not a hybrid fan, I am a diehard freak on ML, Quad, Maggie and Apogee full range panels. I have been using Mc gears for my CLSes and Quad ESLs for sometime. Driven in 4ohm taps from a MC402 and nowaday with the MC601s, They all handle the power nicely. I dont listen loud, but sure need that headroom for better power control.**

I have been in a group of dedicated Maggie's fan club for years, got lot of info how to make proper room coupling with pair of Maggie in limited space. Provided your current room dimension as 10 ft by 20ft, The Maggie should be placed as closer to the side wall as possible in order to get better bass response and even be able to reach to subsonic level. Never need a subwoofer. Room coupling does the trick. Please see attached picture of one of my group member's system. Pictures show Maggie 3.5 and Apogee set in the middle of the room, Front and rear listening positions. Please forgive me with cell phone pictures.

Attachment 28542



Attachment 28543

That was me in the picture. Enjoy.*

Even though I can only hear to about 10K at my age I found the ML Summits as dull as day old dog dung when driven by the MC402 compared to a direct-coupled amp. If you have a 2 ohm tap on your amp it may be slightly better at the high end but you pay with looser bass. More power, such as the MC501 also seemed to help but not enough. You just can't impedance match to 0.7 ohms with a transformer.

I just purchased a pair of Summit Xs and heard them at the store with a Mc 3 channel, don't remember the model, sounded ok. Then heard them with the MC601 which I felt was amazing. Heard then last night with the MC275 which seemed way under powered to me.

Though they're the entry level EM ESL's, I power mine with a pair of MC240's bridged to mono @ 4 ohms. They drive the ESL's effortlessly with plenty of control - all without breaking a sweat.

So which brand is better?? Or are they equals? What do you guys think?

which 'brands' are you speaking of ??

I have the ML Electro Motion ESL's being driven by an McIntosh MC302. The sound is musical bliss. I use the four ohm tap, amp never gets warm even at loud levels. I did add two of the ML Dynamo subs to the mix. Evens out the low end. With the ESL's, be prepared for weeks of placement tweaking. The sweet spot is very narrow. Once you get it right or as much as you are able.... :music:

I have the Summits, Stage, Descent and Passage in-wall surrounds as an HT set-up driven by a Mac-207 amp and the logans really tax the amp.

I have the ML Vantages and C2300/MC302 and the amp barely breaks a sweat and sounds awesome.

I have a pair of Summit X paired with two MC2301s. I like, a lot.

MC452 with ML Ethos working beautifully together.

I am using ML Aerius with C2300 and dual Mc275s as mono blocks. It is a match made in heaven. The pair of Mc275s seem to be perfect for Electrostats. It is hard to beat the higher frequencies of this setup, everyone is impressed...

Summits and C2500/MC302. Initially used the 4 ohm taps but changed to the 8, which in my setup sounds quite a bit more natural to me. Plenty of headroom (although my room is small).

MC2200 driving a pair of ML Aerius i speakers. 4 ohm tap gives better bass but I still prefer the 8 ohm tap for better (perceived) clarity. I am forced to use a 25' long cable (12 AWG) between the amp and the speakers so that probably explains the better bass from the 4 ohm tap since it has a 30 damping factor vs. 16 for the 8 ohm. I haven't tried the 2 ohm tap yet but I suspect the bass will be even better since the manual shows a damping factor of 50. The intriguing part is that the output impedance varies across the taps while the current delivery is supposedly constant due to the presence of the Autoformers.

Just a quick update. I tried running my Aerius i using the 2 ohm taps on my MC2200 last night. I like the sound much better. I feel the higher frequencies are more open and the bass is a little tighter as well. I think my very long speaker wire runs combined with the low impedance of the electrostats at higher frequencies (1.7 ohm @ 20K) are better suited to the higher damping factor of the 2 ohm taps (50). I'm keeping it this way.

I've switched back to the 4 ohm taps as the amp got quite warm, and the powerguard light turned on a few times when playing loud.

I have a pair of Ethos and a pair of MC601's and I think I prefer the 8ohm taps. Sounds more musical to me at the expense of what seems like an exaggerated sense of air on the 4ohm taps. That said still plenty of depth and amps are running cool but in all fairness I'm listening at moderate volumes 90% of the time and not pushing super hard. I don't think I've ever had the power meters much past 60 watts which seemed plenty loud to me. ;-)

Do you guys think the MC452 amp will be ok with a pair ESL 13a's?

https://www.martinlogan.com/expressi...-13a/specs.php

I see no reason why not Tim.......

Thank you...I heard this combo the other day at Magnolia AV. Sounded pretty terrific. And I think the young salesman had it using the 8ohm setting by accident!

Many of the stores I've visited are using the 8 ohm taps with Martin Logan's because a lot of people like the way they sound and I've been running my Ethos that way for a year now with no issues with my MC-601's. When one of the stores in Dallas had a Martin Logan rep in to demo the 15a's a few weeks back they used the 8ohm taps with the 601's for the demo. The 452 and 13a's should be awesome!

Tim, by all means experiment between 4 & 8 ohm taps, room interaction and your listening tastes will tell you what's best.

Thx guys...I sold my Golden Ear Triton 1's. So the 13a's are on the way. Might take another couple of months tho! I paid down some $$ but not all of it. :) Kind of fascinating the different sonic characteristics of the ohm settings.

I liked these speakers better with Wells Audio amps

Wanted to report back...after about 140 hours so far on the new ESL 13a's. I honestly think I like the 8ohm tap better than the 4ohm with the McIntosh MC452 amp. Surprised me. It just sounds a bit more natural and full bodied.

Agree with you 100%! Also ... don't know what speaker cables you are using but the ML's are very resolving and I'm finding even though my Ethos aren't in the same league with yours I'm noticing differences even between some really high end cables. Actually had I upgraded cables before I bought new speakers I might have stayed where I am a bit longer. Enjoy and Congrats again!!

George

Thx George! :)
I use Audioquest Type 8 speaker cables. Their pretty good but to be honest I've never really put much $$ into speaker cable like I have other interconnects. But reading this forum and seeing others gear it has made me question some of my cabling.

I recently demo'd a few different speaker cables on my Impressions.There was no turning back once I head the difference some Nordost Heimdall 2's made.WOW!

Does anyone feel like Mcintosh + ML electrostats combo is a bit dark, lacking crispness and instrument separation, especially with classical music?

I am trying to figure out to move up to a higher end dedicated 2ch preamp for my MC452 paired with ML 11As or change things up to maybe Luxman on the amp side to something a bit more transparent but still having some warmth.

'instrument separation and classical music' ? from everything I've ever experienced and read there is but a very limited area within any given hall that one can experience this. I have attended numerous concerts at the Kimmel Center (Phila) and have yet to find that supposed 'sweet spot', congrats if you have !

Hah, very good point! My explanation was horrible, I meant more muddled sound of instruments together and crispness/lifelike sound of string instruments and the piano. This could very well be a preference thing and no piece of audio gets it perfect. Jazz for example sounds amazing.

I love the MAC sound with my Martin Logan CLX. its a very natural marriage.

I can only imagine how awesome the 2301s are, especially with the C1100!

Its pretty amazing! Just got the 2301's connected and its pretty damn good! ;)