CA Innovation or Master or MT10 or AMG V12?
 

In the process of selecting a new TT and arm with a $30k+ budget (TT, Arm, Cables, ect.). What I have looked at so far:

McIntosh MT10: I am a McIntosh fan but the arm is not upgradable and CA makes it based on a lower model design. I like the floating platter and the electronic speed control. But I think its a pass.

AMG V12: the TAS review was a big plus but was undeceive on the bass performance and referenced the lack there of as a result of the cartridge used for the review. Then I noticed the founder passed away making me think this could be a one hit wonder and no upgrade path in the future. Has anyone heard this table and experienced the bass performance? Also, does the 12" arm require adjustments overtime?

ClearAudio Innovation Wood: I was heading toward this until I have read and heard from dealers this TT lacks in the Bass. Yes, it has the electronic speed control, floating platter, arm(s) are changeable, but if it truly lacks in the bass that could be a no go for me. Can someone comment on this TT and its performance on the Bass and compared to the other TT out there?

ClearAudio Master Innovation: Does this TT from CA also suffer in Bass performance and if not why? Is there value, $15k, in this design vs. the Innovation wood?

Other TT and arm recommendations are greatly welcome. I currently use vintage Tube Pre-amp/amps with ATC 150 speakers. For the TT cartridge I prefer to stick with the Benz Ebony TR with a custom Bob's SUT. I expect the TT cables will be transparent audio from the arm to the SUT to the Pre-amp.

Thanks for the responses.

There is certainly no lack of Bass with my ClearAudio Innovation Wood.

If I had 30K to budget for a table and arm, I would go VPI Classic Direct without hesitation.

Masterlu, thanks for that info. also, have you had a chance to compare the Master Innovation to the Innovation Wood (that you have)? or have you seen any creditable comparisons?

thanks

I almost bought a Master Innovation, but in the end I couldn't hear any difference.

Ivan/Masterlu,

that is very helpful thank you.

J3Brow,

what makes you lean towards the VPI classic direct? compared it? use it now? other?

thanks

I am just a fan of VPI. I have used a Scoutmaster for 7 years now and am very pleased with the performance. The Classic Direct has garnered excellent press and competes as best the world has to offer. Check out Tone Publications review -- awarded overall product of the year. By the way, Benz is an excellent match with the VPI arm, I have a Benz LP-S riding on my 10.5i arm.

I think any claim that any (choose one) well engineered high-end TT (which the Clearaudio certainly is) lacks in bass needs to be met with some funny looks. There are LOTS of ways to make the bass go AWOL in a high-end analog rig: poor cartridge/arm choice, phono stage, bad setup, etc. Or maybe even look at the speaker setup. Blaming the table is easy to do, but misguided.

I get pretty epic bass response with my Innovation Wood feeding into a Hagerman Trumpet and Bob's 1131 SUT. Cart is a Koetsu Jade Platinum; the platinums have great bass, but are certainly no bass monsters. The Trumpet/1131 pairing has the best bass response of the phono stages I've tried, and the differences between stages in bass are not particularly subtle. The tradeoff is that the Trumpet also doesn't have much of a subsonic filter, so you've got to be careful with isolation.

I'd actually like to try an Ortofon Windfeld in this setup. I had a hard time accepting the Windfeld's midrange (a far cry from Koetsu), but its bass was insane -- nimble, extended, and immensely powerful without a hint of bloat or sloppiness (i.e. analogous to the Trumpet/1131). I think the Windfeld with Innovation/1131/Trumpet would yield truly EPIC bass response.

Garrards are known for their bass impact and quality amongst there many other great qualities. I have mine in the marketplace right now, it's a stunner in both sound and look I just never get to use it (kids!) so I decided it's time to move on and downsize into something more affordable like a Well Tempered Amadeus so I can still play the occasional LP when the rare moment strikes.

Of your choices though I've heard the AMG and it's fantastic. I've heard some of the clearaudio's and they sound great too but that AMG always stuck out for me.

Given the number of VPI fans on this forum and Ivan's disclosed representation of Clearaudio products, it's perhaps not surprising there has only been one mention of the AMG Viella V12. In regard to founder Werner Roeschlau's passing, my understanding is that his son who he was working in partnership with prior to his passing is now running the business with the same team of machinists who were there from the start. So for all intents and purposes it is business as usual. Sound-wise, paired with a Benz cartridge and using the excellent phono preamp in the Dartzeel NHB-18ns, bass was very good! It doesn't sound as bombastic as a Transrotor Fat Bob Reference, however imho the lower frequencies are in perfect harmony with the rest of the frequency spectrum. It sounds remarkably smooth and resolving. Overall I found this combo pleasingly musical. I like the simplicity and build quality of this tt. And that simplicity extends to its clean classic lines. Regarding the tonearm, I don't have experience using the arm over time, but I can tell you a friend of mine chose that arm as an upgrade for his Transrotor Rondino Nero and is very happy. Hope that helps.

Cheers,

I've heard none of them.
But I wouldn't be surprised if I wind up with an AMG in the upcoming future. That just looks like a perfectly designed turntable and tonearm, to me.
I would seriously consider the VPI classic direct, because I like using the VPI outer ring on my VPI Aries 3 (and I have a soft spot for direct drive tables), but 30G's... Really??? C'mon, now. One can almost buy 2 AMG's with 12" arms for the price of the VPI.

I have not heard the AMG. I have heard the Innovation and it is a fabulous table. I would love to own one.

With that Kind of budget I'd be looking at the 3000 DD or maybe a souped up HRX with 2 of the new arms.

V12.

Such a sexy beast.

Great question and responses! What did you end up with, and are you happy with it? AMG? CA?

Any other experiences in this field of TTs?

Same Budget
 

I went with the Master Innovation - should be here in 4 weeks - got a sweet deal from CA with the 12" Universal and added a Verify for mono.