Gryphon Pandora and Memphisto
 

I had a chance to audition to these rare audio eqipments.

I read in catalog, it stated that these are strictly limited edition.
I wonder how limited they are.
Now I have question, how much more the Solo will bring at double the price?
For similar budget, should I get Pandora+Stereo Memphisto, or to get Memphisto Solo and use them with my
Audio Research Ref40 pre amp. It will be easier to answer if one knows which pre amp is the better sounding one.
Here are some photos I took from the showroom.

Toga

http://www.audioaficionado.org/attac...1407036313.jpg

http://www.audioaficionado.org/attac...2976507572.jpg

http://www.audioaficionado.org/attac...2723249409.jpg

The Gryphon pre amps have never been on par with their power amps . I am speaking especially of the Antellion pre-power combo . Having said that , it has been reported that the Pandora is a step in the right direction to balance out the previous mentioned shortfall . If your ARC is compatible with the Mephisto , theARC40 +Mephisto Solo would be the way to go, always nice to have a tube in the chain for that touch of magic . My preference is that the tube rather be in the pre than the power . Depending on how big your room is ,your listening levels are, I am quite certain that a Mephisto Stereo should be sufficient to bear ripe enough fruit , but the Solo it is if you do not want to die wondering :scratch2: Good luck in your quest .

My room is large, my speakers are high sensitivity, I play loud. But Anyway Pass Labs XA160.5 drove my Salon2 very well in this same room. 175 Watt from stereo Memphisto will be enough. Just that the mono block has much larger capacitor reservoir. I don't understand why the Pandora is designed to use 2 power cords, as very likely both cords will share same outlets anyway. There is high chance that I will need Pandora as, by spec, my ARC cannot drive low impedance Gryphon very well. But I really don't wanna sell the wonderful Ref40 if possible financially. I agree with you that tube pre amp in a chain will bring some magic. But read somewhere that Gryphon system can make us forget about tube.

Toga

Toga , I checked the figures on the ARC Ref40 and it shows output impedance as 600 ohms, the input impedance of the Mephisto is 20kohms . I am using the Wavac Prt-1 pre amp with a similar output impedance to drive the Vitus - ss101mk2 which has an input impedance of 10kohm, to feed a Marten Coltrane 2 . I find no lack of deep bass or other compatibility problems . Mind you the XLR outputs of the WAVAC are transformer coupled and so may be a factor in my case . Best would be to try the pairing at home , I have an inkling that it should work . The only off putting aspect of the Mephisto to me , is the use of dual power cords , all adds up if you are using top line stuff , as will most probably be the case .

I am contemplating the pandora as well. I can sell my Goldmund preamp and geta new pandora with no extra funds required. The pandora is the first preamp I have seen that needs two power cords. In effect you really are buying two separate preamps.:thumbsup:

Howie

@jazzhead, thanks for nice info. ,in Ref40 spec, it says " minimum load 20kOhm.

And from Stereophile lab test result of Ref3, distortion climbed rapidly as load impedance decreased.

@howiebrau and everyone..
I don' mind two power cords on amp as I am using monoblock already, but see no points on two PC
For pre amp.
The Pandora, I hope it to have all the magical sound the Ref40 has, on user flexibility, I found it flexible in a difficult way.
And in some way, the inflexible Ref40 is easier to use. For example , to dim or off the front display, we have a direct command
On Ref40 remote while we have to do many clicks to get into menu of Pandora. And to operate the menu, you do from front panel only, your have to put finger prints on that nice acrylic touch sensitive panel. ARC also provides direct Home Theater bypass button on remote, on Pandora we have to press up or down on Source select to find bypass mode. There are only
Volume, source up/down,on/off, mute on Pandora remote. This I feel Pandora lacking a bit in user friendliness, despite being microprocessor controlled.
My requirement may be unique among audiophile, I integrated high end system with home theatre , that mean I will use Theatre Bypass and turn off front display routinely.
But the Pandora will be visually matched to the giant Memphisto way better than Ref40 does, which actually doesn't matched at all.
Toga
stand by for further, Gryphon will be delivered on 9, Monday. will report.

:lurk:

Whilst I would agree that the power amps are very good,I would not discount the Mirage and Pandora preamps.I have had long term loans of quite a few preamps recently including the Mirage which I found to be comfortably better than the Ayre K-XR for example.
I too am looking forward to Toga's review.

Please don't expect it to be a review, my English is not that good. All I can do is to
mention how different they are to other gears that I have tried. :)
and you may visit my newly added album to see what I have tried and/or owned before here
http://www.audioaficionado.org/membe...tml#post527710

Keep in mind that the Mephisto Solo has a 10kOhm input impedance vs 20kOhm for the stereo version.

What about the Boulder 3060? It's about the same price as a pair of Mephisto Solos and its 200kOhm input impedance should be high enough for the ARC 40. Plus they visually match much better.
http://www.boulderamp.com/Images/3060-Front-Back.png

Anatta, I have always concerned about this low impedance since the beginning. However, It s worth a try, and Pandora

Is always an option. Memphisto Mono will be around $110,000 while I believe the Boulder will be $200,000 ..Ouch..

Toga

The 3060 is the stereo amp and has a msrp of $115k; the 3050s are the monos @ $200k/pair.

Did you consider the Constellationaudio Centaur monos's? They have 200KΩ XLR balanced input impedance and should be a great match for the REF40. I hope that soon I will be able to listen to the Centaur Stereo with my REF40.

@Anatta ok,I got it, I saw two amps in your thumbnail picture and I thought you mentioned the Mono. Always confused with the 50 vs 60 model designator of Boulder. They set Boulder price very high here approaching 160,000$ for stereo and less flexible in term of payment I guess. I am sure they are great, be it 2160, 3060.

@microstrip, of course I was almost purchase Centuar Mono start of 2013, as they were one of my prospect.
The dealer missed an appointment to bring them to my home twice, I saw how they were built inside, and a visit to showroom to hear,them and the system sound badddddd... I will never blamed the products, I point to the room, I came back home unimpressed.. Also even reviewers confused which input made better sound, with trade off between them, for me I will not
have chance to use Constellation Direct input so I have to live with the lower performance side of these amps.

Coming back to Gryphon, They are the last one in amps that I have put on the list and it showed potential at dealer showroom. The dealer is one of the best in service too, I have to give them a chance.

Here I show again, my selected amps and the day I went to audition Centaurs.

Toga

Ok just make a call to Boulder dealer, two of 3060 and two sets of 3050 sold so far, to drive Alexia and Maxx3. Cusntomer also us Ref40 as pre. Price is said to be negotiable , depends very much to currency exchange rate and at 100,000$ range
Every tiny move of the rate play big part. There is a traded in 2060 at a very good price too, Should I try?

Try the Grphons Toga. I prefer them infinitely more than Boulder or Constellation. Ultimately it's a personal thing but I tink gryphon would be a nice match for yur system.

@howiebrou, I will I will :)

What I want is an organic sounds, while transparent and wide bandwidth, but never lack punch and that crescendo moment. At first I thought about Rowland 925, but knowing Rowland is always polite and not explosive. Long ago I like Pass XA160.5 , but it lacked drive with Ref40, more ok with XP20, however.
I wil use Pandora with Moon, to see how it compare to Ref 40. Then I will use Ref40 to drive both Moon and Gryphon.
With 2 pres and 2 amps, there are 4 combinations possible.
Toga
How much will I save if I chose Colosseum and Atheena pre instead?

Another vote for Gryphon. :smoking:
-Excellent sound, design and built
-Long standing established brand
-Reasonably priced for what offered
-Good dealer relationship you mentioned is also an added value
IMO.
Wish they are represented here too locally.

Having had both the Athena and the Mirage preamps for an extended listen I would strongly recommend the Mirage and Pandora over the Athena.

I am curious what technology of volume control is used in Pandora.

I like the concept of KX-R or Accuphase 3800 volume controls, rather than simple chip in Audio Research s.
Volume should also operated in true balanced mode, like Accuphase C3800.
For KXR concept of maintain performance at any level is interesting, while I dont like it to have moving part and mechanical contacts, but I heard similar click when operate Pandora volume too.

Toga

http://www.gryphon-audio.net/Imagery/company.html

Lots of photo and even an entire Book.

Howie, how do you rate Vitus against comparatively priced Gryphon gear?

Toga, I can tell you the new 3060 stereo amp is outstanding. It is a big jump in sound from the previous 2000 series and has superb engineering. It also looks beautiful imho. The sound character with your Ref 40 preamp should be excellent since the Boulder's neutrality and high input impedance means it will be compatible with any tube preamp. Moreover, Boulder amps have known synergy with ARC Reference preamps. Most punters who offer opinions about Boulder know little or nothing about the 3000 series, let alone auditioned any of those amps. I can email you the Technical White Paper for the 3050 mono blocks if you like? Just send me a pm. The 3050's share a very similar architecture to the 3060. Btw, I spoke to Rich Maez who actually prefers the sound of the 3060 to the 3050 mono's and said that is his favorite Boulder amp. Alternatively, you could look at the new 2160 stereo amp due out soon & add the 2110 2-chassis preamp which would come in about the same price. The 2160 is a dual mono amp which operates in pure Class A. Now that would be an awesome combo!!

Dave, a set of Gryphon will be coming in 3 days from now. Boulder 3050/3060 stocks are all sold out at the moment.
I will give Gryphon the first chance. If not success,then 2160 coming on the table next. Dont wanna really spend
$100,000. I had just have Q7 delivered in May. Something in 50,000$ range is what I pay attention to.
I am sure both brands will offer great sound. The flexibility in term of payment and trades in pay much important roles here too.
Thanks for tech spec, yes I would love to have it, do you have one for new 2100 series too?
Toga

Hi Toga, if you can get a Memphisto on a deal in your price range, short of the Boulder 3060 I'd say your search ends there. In that price range the 2160 would be on my short list, especially in the context of synergy with your Ref 40 pre. Vitus also has great synergy with Magico, though Vitus power amps are best matched with a Vitus pre for best synergy.

If you pm me your email address i'll email the technical white paper for the 3050 mono's. Btw, Rich hasn't finished the white papers for the 2100 series as yet. His biggest issue is getting access to units to take digital photos. The 2100 series amps are based on the same architecture as the 3000 series, so it will still offer much insight.

Cheers,

David , I PM you already,
Thanks a lot.
i tried Vitus SS101 twice, I felt it dark with my Q3. I like Vitus with Sophia 3 and Marten Bird more.. So sweet .
Toga

Thanks for the feedback Toga. I know the SS-101 has a different tonal balance to the SIA-025 integrated which is warmer (more romantic). I'm ordering an SIA-025 to pair with my S5's which are also on the warm side. That should be a wonderful match with my Jorma Primes.

The new Xs amps from Pass could also be an option for the ARC 40; they have a 200kOhm input impedance.

At the moment, Gryphons are on the way, expect to arrive in less than 30 minutes.

Toga

:lurk:

Good luck on the listening test.

ok I 'm here.
At first I am so reluctant to move the amp in to the room, the mover guys didn't look
well groom to me, I concern security,I didn't want them to see what I have in my home. So I dimmed all the light, cover everything with blanket.
back to topic. The Pandora is still in the box, I connect Memphisto to ARC pre amp.
2 surprises.
1. ARC drive them very well no sign of weaken by low input impedance load.
2. sound is same ! same as Moon. but with darker and shut in treble.
3. feel disappointed.
But Hey, I am an audiophile with long experience. So I told to myself, hey this is class A solid state amp that has been unplugged since Friday. Give it some time to warm up.
we played some music and concert from BD for an hour. during that time I noticed the
treble to be much nicer. bass depth and drums impact is astonishing. little problem is that my speaker cables is too short when use with stereo amp like this. other problem is that now I connect Stage III power cords to the amp, my own cords will not make as good sound.
In 2-3 days I will put Pandora in. and may be some more comments tonight.
for now they are very musical and powerful, but I guess this is the effect of Stage III power cables too.
Toga
Sorry for poor quality photo, camera seems unable to do auto focus well on shiny black target.

On first night, with Memphisto bias set to maximum for many hours, amp is very hot.
I will not go into details as it is no use here. But the first impression for anyone who listen to it will be smoothness. tonality is very neutral. power is strong. but it is not tube. it is a very very good solid state sound, not a hint of tube sound. this smoothness is benefited to every kinds of music, except hard rock or heavy metal where electric guitar need some bite. One big problem is that when I removed Stage III power cords out. and put Audioquest WEL PCs in, I think 40% of magic is gone. What if I try Stage III with Moon , and sure I will try.
Trying to reduce the ultra smooth sound when listen to heavy metal music, I connect Pandora in. umbilical cords are too short to separate them horizontally so I have to stack them vertically. with many hours of warm up. Pandora is also a very very
smooth and ease to the ears, tonality is lighter than ARC tube. I think it is very neutral,
cranking up volume control up click by click and it never seem to running out of juice.
Also this preamp will not make me mistaken it as a tube, sound is very very solid state. very clean and transparent, a bit light in tonality. ARC will make that tube magic mid band glow, which Pandora not.
With different speakers used, this may not be very fair, but I believe Gryphon Pandora and Memphisto are the best solid state amplification I have auditioned at home. they combine smoothness and musicality with great power. But they will not replace tubes.
ARC ref40+Ref75 make much different sound. less transparent, less refined treble, less sharp attack, but richer and have tube glow across the spectrum.
one of the touch screen on Pandora just doesn't work, it's the " enter" so I cannot do anything in the menu, I cannot set Theater Bypass mode on because I cannot press
"enter" button on front panel touch screen.
I could live with Memphisto+ARC very happily, until I try to play Metallica.
I could live with Memphitto+Pandora very happily too, until I try to play Megadeth.
And this is what I have to think about seriously. Also that Stage III cables things.
Now listening to them at the moment and I can feel that the tube magic is not there, but a solid state magic instead.

Toga

beautiful system!
maybe try some darker cables like purist audio, or synergistic with black tuning bullets.

Nice review Toga,

Give it some more time. My system is still changing sound for the better. Notes are becoming better delineated and more smooth. I wish I could leave it run overnight but I might burn my house down!:smoking:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps31598d82.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps45c83c60.jpg

I like the vitus very much. I have not heard the Masterpiece line of Vitus but the 2nd line down is still very good. They match Marten very well actually. The 2nd line down should be cheaper according to MSRP than the Gryphon I think.

P.s if anyone is interested in a mint Masterpiece Series Vitus Preamp, there is an AAer with one for sale I believe.


Howie

Your listening room is so nice Howie.
and Farewell to David.
Now I reconnect ARC Ref40 back today. Will see.
Toga

I use Running Spring Audio Hz PC on both Pandora and ARC.
I noticed that on ARC which is 20A, the furutech plug is gold plated. The 15A cables used with Pandora is Rhodium plated.
This might be the cause of some lightness and solid-state feel I heard on Pandora. Pandora are also very light in both chassis.
I dont know what make it so expensive. I think it is lighter than Pass XP20.


I don't think Pandora is better than ARC Ref40. They make differently sound, both very good, but not better than other.
For Memphisto I think I will,take some more time with it, listening with as many kinds of musics as possible.

Toga

Is there any explanation why I feel Memphisto set at medium bias sounds more punchy than at max bias?

Medium = pure class A up to 50 watt
Max= pure class A up to rated 175w.

Could it be that power supply work less in medium mode and have some more juice left for punch?

With Q7 I believe I still hear pure class A all the time even set in Medium bias.

Toga

Rooms looking great Howie . The C2's are crying out for the Ultra5's , huge move ... Try it , will be more:music: for sure .

Toga , the S3 cords look like the Zyklops , got mine a few days back ... Super it is too ... Enjoy !