CR-1 and two f-113 set up
 

The set up question. I have a cr-1 and two fathom f-113 subs. I am using rca cables. What is the best way to get started on this set up? Do I defete the controls on the sub, do I still use the roa system on the f-113s? Seems to me the master/slave switch should both be set to master and one rca run to each sub. From there I am in need of some suggestions

Good question, master/slave versus straight stereo master/master set up. Is the master/slave configuration primarily related to linking the room correction? What does it say in the CR1 manual?

You will want to max the crossover settings on the subs, the CR1 will now handle that. The phase setting on the sub remains critical as does the room placement. I highly recommend getting Barry the Soundoctor's test disc and carefully read his set up instructions. You may want to give him a call at JL as well, but I suggest you first familiarize yourself with his instructions.

I did order the disc. Seems like master/master and eliminate the controls on the sub and just use the cr-1.

I have the CR-1 and (2) f112 subs. Mine are set up this way. I read Barry's papers and the manual 3-4 times but when I got it right it was worth the effort.

Perhaps a separate thread, but I have the cr-1s and feel no need for a sub. Appreciate comments on drivers for the sub decision.

Barry lives about 40 minutes from my house so he came to my house to integrate my two F113's with my system. It makes for a fun and interesting day. He is one of the best guys and a master at setting up the speakers and subs. If you have the chance I suggest you call and invite him over. There is a small fee charge and will take a good lunch you both will enjoy but well worth the day. Barry is delightful. You will be totally secure when he is finished.

weird Cuba we are talking about the JL Audio CR-1 active x-over;) I'm sure your TADs do not require a sub;)

Whew. I was thinking - I must be missing something, cause I thought these things sounded great!

Yup, that sounds like the way to go on the JL CR1 settings. Barry is The Man!

Cuba, your TADs are one of the best speakers I have ever heard (and I've heard and owned some great speakers). The bass is amazing for their size. I do wonder what a properly set up JL CR1 and f113 pair would add. That could be a true giant killer. I've had the great pleasure of meeting Andrew Jones a couple of times. I was humbled in the presence of greatness.

The disc came today. Going to try and get a little time in the next few days to work with everything. Also have a dvx 14/10 to use, its helpful to see whats going on in the room

I am seriously considering the DEQX HDP5 preamp/DAC/crossover/room correction unit. I have done quite a bit of research and it is a pretty impressive unit. The crossover is extremely sophisticated as is the room correction, but the real key is the time domain correction -critical to the proper integration of subs. It is very complicated, but I'm up for the challenge. The sound is supposedly excellent. I think it may be just what I'm looking for.

My biggest issue is understanding the damping feature...

Damping feature?

the CR-1 has a damping knob for high/low to help roll off the x-over. It may just be a fine tune but dunno.

Ah yes, I think those are indeed a fine tuning control. It looks like they are used to smooth out the overlap where the mains and subs crossover. Interesting feature.

cr-1 and two f-113 set up
 

Where does one order the disc? Is it on the Soundoctor site?

Nvm. Found it on the site!

Spent over two hours on the phone with Barry "The Sound Doctor"today. That man has an intense passion for audio engineering and I'm looking forward to the day he visits me in Dallas. Until then it will be heads down learning his technique and seeing how close I can get things on my own!

Thread revival.

I set my single 113 up using my just acquired CR1. I followed Barry's instructions for the most part and achieved a satisfying integration. I did a few things differently in respect to his suggestions. For one, I used a meter to measure the null although it's not that hard to hear it. I found the meter allowed me to achieve greater precision. The null itself was textbook, over 40dB. The controls (phase and level) are hair trigger. Just a little bit wrong one way or the other and you miss the notch.

I also measured the system using the 18 tracks of tone he provides and charted them for my amusement. Here's what I found:

I have a dip (suck out) of about 20dB at 55Hz ( room related). It's quite narrow. I don't actually hear it, but it can be seen in the measurement. It affects the adjacent bands (50Hz and 60 Hz) which also scope a few extra dB down from ideal. Other than that, my system is flat plus or minus 2dB from 120 to 65 Hz (1/6th octave smoothed if I calculate by the provided tones) and plus or minus 3db (except for that suck out centered at 50 Hz) to 40Hz. After that, it rolls off a bit (actually looks like a shelf) and is down around 15 dB by 20Hz. It's interesting to me because it doesn't sound like it's rolled off nearly that much. I played a bit with the damping control for the woofer (I added 2dB) and oddly that seemed to move the whole shooting match up a couple of dB. I still have to fine tune the crossover frequencies to see what if anything might help since things are somewhat interactive, it seems. Of course, I can just add more gain at either the sub or via the "mix" control on the crossover as the bottom octave looks pretty much like a shelf. I'm reluctant to screw around too much because it sounds great, not lacking for bass to my taste.

The low octave measurements don't convey how tuneful and solid the low end is even with only one sub and somewhat less exciting measurements below 50Hz . The low end is really crisp, which I gather is the point. I have also gained a few dB of additional headroom on the high end, and you can hear the clarity and ease that relieving the main amp of low frequency duty has added. It's easy to see because of the meters on my Mc amp, which also come in handy for checking reference levels at 85 dB and then comparing them to the maximum levels on the disc. I am barely into the meat of the sub's amplifier, tons of headroom there.

It gets better. Imaging, which has always been good with the Salons, is even better now. A wonderful phantom center is even more evident. I used the pink noise track to confirm that, but it was always a strong point for this rig. By the way, I plugged the Salons' ports as suggested. That was an article of faith for me, but it works as advertised. I can see spending a lot of time futzing around with this thing!

Thanks for the detailed follow-up. I'm considering a JL and this is helpful.

This reminded me that I was going to schedule Barry to come out at some point. I think rather than spend more on equipment, it's time to spend it on setup!

Are you using both the JL subs and the Paradigm sub in the same system?

You're welcome.

I was skeptical about the value of the phase control as I believed a tight integration required delays. That may be but in my situation the phase control and polarity switch came in very useful and it was enjoyable and easy to tune it as well. It makes a difference you can hear.

i"m also considering a house visit with Barry. His price is actually fairly reasonable for what he is going to do, and the results would probably far exceed the improvement by adding another component, which would cost probably 5-10x more!

If anyone has used Barry in the past, please feel free to PM me, I'd love to hear your feedback.

What kind of meter did you use. Thanks

R

Sorry to be so very late in responding.

I used an iPhone with AudioTools and a Dayton EMM6 microphone. Pretty good rig for $100 plus your phone of course. I have an IVIE IE30(and a Radio Shack SPL meter) but this rig yields more information than either of those.