Help me hunt for a new pair of speakers
 

Hey!

I currently have my speakers since 7 years now and really enjoy them, but I feel it's time now to upgrade to something different. They are Totem Mani-2 Signature in maple finish as you can see in the picutre (these are actually mines but from an another ad some years ago).

As excellent as they are, they have some drawbacks. First, the load. It's 4 ohms at 85 db and they require a lot of power since this is an isobaric configuration. Before I had a McIntosh MC252 and I felt they would have needed a MC452 or Bryston 4B SST2 to really sing. Next, this is not a speaker to play loud and the metallic tweeter requires good electronics to not sound edgy.

Their sound is rich and plentiful. They really can make the room shake when properly driven. Now my modest modified Yamaha CA-1000 is quickly showing signs of fatigue when the speakers are pushed. True, I could find another amplifier up to the task but there is this desire to move to something else but also I often feel that I have to make compromise with the choice of amplification.

I wish to find a sound signature similar to them, but with an easy load of 8 ohms and better efficiency. My budget is 4-5K on the used market.

There are some models that I have found interesting. The PMC twenty5.24 is one of them. I remember I heard the OB1i at an audio show and was very impressed with the PMC sound. But still, the twenty5.24 is a two way design and I know that even my Mani-2 Signature cannot dig on some material. Before them, I had a pair of Harbeth C7 ES3 which I sold quickly because I felt they were truly lacking that grunt and weight that I like. And before them, I had the Verity Audio Rienzi. This is a 3 ways design and the bass and transparency was much better than my M2S. The thing is that I felt they needed to be cranked to sound better since only the mid is working at low volume. That's is a reason why I like a 2 ways design since the woofer is always working. Maybe I didn't have a good 3 ways design that would blend the frequencies more seamlessly.

The M2S has Dynaudio woofers. And I really like the sound of the Dynaudio Focus range. The thing is that they are 4 ohms. Maybe they would be easier to drive than that isobaric configuration.

My room is 16 ft wide X 25 feet deep but I sit halfway at 13 ft. Ceiling height is 7.5 ft all drywalled. Listening space is fully soundproofed with Roxul. Equipment consist of a Yamaha CA-1000 restored/modified and is 70W at 8 ohms. Front ends DAC and source are Bryston BDA-3 and BDP-2.

I don't like a lean sound or too much clarity as it exacerbates my ears. I like a plentiful sound with meat on the bones. Based on all this, what would you recommend to have a look at?

Thanks!

Hello Serge! I used to own the original Totem Mani-2 speakers, and they're quite a unique design. With their dual woofer (one internal) in an isobaric configuration they achieve an unusual amount of bass extension for a monitor speaker. Totems have always been known for their soundstaging ability and being able to recreate a sense of the recording's space. I'm sure that the Signature versions are further improved, so to replace them with something significantly better may prove to be a relatively costly endeavor. In order to help you with some possible suggestions we would need to know some additional details... what is your target budget range, do you want another monitor or would you consider a floor standing speaker, what electronics do you have or plan on using, and what types of music you primarily listen to? Hopefully we can come up with some ideas for your consideration.

Thank Bill, I was editing my post prior your reply as I hit the "submit" button by mistake.

I really like film music scores, from Hans Zimmer as an example. I am not into jazz at all, I enjoy the likes of Enya, Loreena McKennitt, music of the world, some classic from time to time. I like also well recorded acoustic music. Some Depeche Mode and death metal depending how I feel :music:

I too often find piano is rough on my ears, unfortunately. Another thing, I will need the speaker for some TV watching and 2.0 home cinema.

You're certainly correct about the Mani-2s being a difficult load, due to a combination of their low sensitivity and isobaric loaded woofer configuration. I'm not surprised that your Yamaha at 70wpc into 8 ohms is being taxed driving the Totems. Since you seem to like their sound one choice would be to keep the speakers and invest in better amplification, but it seems like you've got the itch to try some different speakers. Since you're looking in the used market I'd suggest sticking with brands that you've previously been impressed with like PMC or Dynaudio which you specifically mentioned. Neither of those are of generally high sensitivity designs but wouldn't likely be as demanding a load as the Totems.

Unfortunately the only way to know how a given speaker will work with your existing amp or even another one you may choose is to try the combination in your room. The size of your listening space is also a consideration since it's pretty large which is going to also demand more power from the amp. If you have a local dealer who sells used gear seeing what they have available would be the best place to start since you could likely arrange to borrow used gear from them to try in your system before a purchase.

You can buy used gear from various online sources or dealers, but it can be a risk since you won't be sure that you'll like a given set of speakers better than what you already have. Shipping speakers back and forth can be costly and most individual sellers of used gear do not accept returns. Sorry I can't provide more specific suggestions but given your situation I think those are the options you should consider.

Thanks Bill, I totally agree with what you wrote. Right now I am looking at a pair of Verity Audio Fidelio with the Encore upgrade. Verity Audio facilities are 2 hours from my home so it would be easy to go there and perform the upgrade. Fidelio Encore are 8 ohms (minimum 6) at 89 db. Sellers accept I can go audition before purchase. I am more worried about listening at low volumes since it's a 3 ways design.

Also, there is a discounted brand new pair of Dynaudio Excite X44 on canuck audio mart. These things are beast and would outperform my Mani-2 Sig even in deep bass at 27 Hz. They are more efficient at 89 db instead of 85 like the M2S. That would be a good choice for listening music and home cinema even if they are 4 ohms. The choice of amplifier will not last forever, as I may find the itch to upgrade sooner than expected. The CA-1000 is a very good amplifier with all the modifications I performed but it is no match to my previous McIntosh setup (MC252 + C46). Not the same league but I know how my M2S can sound and so far, they do not sing as with the Mc.

Best of luck Serge, and please let us know how things progress with your mission!

Hi Serge,
There will be the Salon du Son de Montréal this week-end.
Maybe it will be a good thing to go since you are not too far from Montréal.
C’est dommage but only you will know what work best in your room.
Bonne chance.

I think the PMC twenty5.24 retails for around $7,500 which would be over your 4-5k budget. Even the twenty5.23 is over budget at $5,500. You could look at the twenty5.22 bookshelf speaker which would be in the budget range you listed. It uses the same drivers as the twenty5.24 but has a shorter transmission line. The bass output isn’t bad at 39Hz and it has an 8 ohm impedance with a sensitivity of 89db.

Have you looked into an of the Bryston T series speakers?? Either Active or non-active they might just suit you needs!

Merci Pierre, yes I am anxiously waiting to Saturday to attend the show. There are many boots I wish to visit and have a chat with the manufacturers.

I think these prices are retail. I am looking to find a good used one.

No I haven't. Yes that is interesting. I will go to the Bryston boot to the Montréal audio show and meet Mr. Tanner 😊

Used:
1. Wilson Sophia I (or II?)
2. Rockport Mira
3. Aerial 7T

Hi Serge,
If possible, as you like Dynaudio drivers, I would look at either the Contour 20 or Special 40s, if possible.

I can drive my (pretty big) Dynaudio Contour S3.4s with a 70 wpc Conrad Johnson LP70S tube amplifer to louder SPLs than you would want to listen to, so I would not dismiss Dyns just on the basis of them being a 4 ohm impedance.

Regards,
Stephen aka PC

Yes, those are retail prices. I rarely see these speakers come up used so you might have a hard time finding a pair. The 21’s pop up a little more often.

Thanks Stephen. Since they were introduced I always liked the Focus range with the 260 being my prime target. But if I look at it more closely the Contour 30 would most likely best the Focus 260 as it is higher up in the chain; both are 2.5 ways. I am not sure how much of an upgrade it would be from my Mani-2 Sig to the Focus 260 but I bet the Contour 30 to be a significant leap.

Always believed the Wilsons to be out of my price range but I am open to the idea. I will have a look at your suggestion, especially the Aerial as I read good things about them.

If you decide to consider the Sophia 1 or 2, you should try to find a Wilson Certified Authentic pair, which includes performance authentication, a Wilson Audio Factory Warranty and set up by a Wilson dealer.

Yes, it would. The engineering specification for the Contour line is higher than the Focus line.

Was very pleased with a pair of Focal 1008BeII. With your larger room you might be interested in the 1028BeII or 1038BeII. All are on closeout pricing, being replaced with the Sopia line. Easy to drive and the two larger have 91-92dB sensitivity.

Yes I have been considering the 1028 Be as a potential upgrade. How would you describe the sound of the Focal, warm, dry, lean, etc?

Then that makes it a serious contender. I just not wish to side step which I feel I may be doing (±) with a pair of Focus 260. The contour 30 may stretch the budget a bit but I am in no dire rush but would like to upgrade this year.

Am fairly sensitive to the 'edgy' sound of many tweeters and was worried that the Focal inverted dome would make my 'ears bleed' in long listening sessions. However, that was anything but the case. Never a problem and many, many happy hours with them. Would describe them as being 'accurate' and extended at both ends of the spectrum. The 1008BeII would be the favorite of all the speakers I've owned over many years. Accurate and extended at both ends. And, important to me, sound as good at low listening levels (<80db) as they do when 'rocking out'. That includes both the Yamaha NS-1000 & NS-1000M speakers you've mentioned, driven with the B-2 & MX-2000 amps, which, like so many speakers, fail at my preferred lower listening levels.

JBL 4429 $5000 :music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N24qY7KYRnA

If I were shopping for speakers right now, I'd be giving Harbeth a long hard look....the new 30.2s

Sublimely natural and musical-sounding.

Hi Serge, do you find your futur speakers ???

If you like the 1028 be why not check out the Kanta line? Like you I really liked the 1028be, but found them to be a bit rough on the average recordings while the Kanta's have a nice detailed top end that will hold up to the early cd's neither speaker is going to overload a room with bass. Everything out there is worth a listen anymore and the real trick is finding speakers that will sound great in your room.

If you can have a look at GoldenEar. I own the triton 5’s and they sound amazing.

Harbeth is not for me. I had the Compact 7 ES3 and didn't like them. Well, they sounded very good and the timbre was ver natural but they lacked that grunt and punch my Mani-2 Sig can give (29 Hz!). Actually, the Harbeth were replaced by them and I remember when I first heard the Totem in my home I had that big satisfied grin on my face. No regret.

No, not yet. Still looking but the speaker upgrade is on the back burner for now. I have made many incremental changes on my system that keep me satisfied with the speakers. Actually, the thing I was worrying the most, and the main reason for the upgrade, was if my Yamaha CA-1000 could provide enough power to properly drive my Totem. Heck, this 1974 Yammy packs quite a punch and really impresses me how musical it is and how well it controls the speakers. I am no longer worried now to upgrade to other speakers with a 4 ohms impedance. I am currently looking to upgrade my power cables which I believe I will benefit more.

I am still side looking at speakers that would be a worthwhile upgrade for my Mani-2 Signature and I have found two interesting Dynaudio:

Newest Contour 30, 2.5 ways
Older Focus 380, 3 ways

I know the limited basics about impedance and dB but I would be curious how the two models I am looking at would behave with my amplifier. More specifically, would these two models be easier to drive than my Mani-2 Signature according to the specifications.

Mani-2 Signature
Two-way, reflex-loaded, magnetically shielded, stand-mounted loudspeaker. Drive-units: 1" (25mm) metal-dome tweeter, two 7" plastic-cone woofers. Crossover frequency: 4kHz. Frequency response: 29Hz-20kHz ±3dB. Sensitivity: 85dB/W/m (2.83V). Nominal impedance: 4 ohms. Maximum sound pressure level: 110dB before dynamic compression. Amplifier requirements: 40-200W (4 ohms).

Contour 30
Sensitivity: 87dB (2,83V / 1m)
IEC Power Handling: 300W
Impedance: 4 Ohms
Frequency Response (±3dB): 32Hz – 23kHz
Box Principle: Bass Reflex Rear Ported
Crossover: 2½ way
Crossover Frequency: (300) / 2200Hz
Crossover Topology: 2nd order

Focus 380
Sensitivity: 88 dB
IEC Power Handling: > 300 W
Impedance: 4 Ω
Frequency Response: 35 Hz – 23 kHz (± 3 dB)
Box Principle: Bass Reflex Rear Ported
Crossover: 3 way
Crossover Frequencies: 460, 2600 Hz

All of these 3 models have a 4 ohms nominal impedance. But the dB rating being higher on the Dynaudio suggest they would be easier on the amplifier. An increase of 3 dB is said to double the sound output, then would an impedeance of 85 dB (M2S) to a 88 dB (F380) be twice as easy to drive? Or, if I plug a pair of F380, would it require half of the power that was needed with my Mani-2 Sig for the same sound output level? I am not sure it works that way so I am asking the pros.

You could also try the Contour S3.4 or S5.4

They may be better than the 30 or the 380. The S5.4 is a 3 way if you prefer that over the 2-1/2 ways.

I've been reading several posts from owners of the c20-30-60 that upgraded from older dynes and are disappointed with them. Try to get a pair that's already broke in before judging the contours.