Cables hunt for Magico Q7
 

Stay tune.

My current cables are Transparent Ultra MM2 interconnects
Transparent Reference MM speaker cables.

Goal is to find new interconnect to match in quality to the rest of system.


Loan cables on hands are
1. MIT Oracle MA-X2 V2 IC
2 Kubala Sosna Elation IC and SC
3. Nordost Valhalla1 SC
4 Shunyata Anaconda Zetron IC and SC

Tonight will be long night.. But i know the only way to success in choosing cables
Is to take time. Only a long time listening can tell the true story. But I don' t have such time.
Not going to pull the trigger soon anyway.

Toga

make sure that the cable are properly burnt in. I have the MA-X2, took 10 days of full time operation to stabilize.
I am interested by the results of your comparison.

Dear Toga,


Earlier this month I visited the Munich high-end hifi show. I was blown away by a few demos.

One was with NOLA speakers powered by full ARC gear (including your Ref 75). Cabling was with a complete Nordost Odin set-up !!!

The other was with ROCKPORT Altair 2 speakers driven by Absolare + MSB electronics. Cables from Echole brand. Actually I'm going to audition at home the Echole Obsession speaker cables in about 2 weeks.

I also would like to tell you that the (less known) German cable brand Schnerzinger works well with MAGICO speakers (the seller of my A-65 uses these cables on Q5 with a full Accuphase line-up). However, I'm afraid it's a concept for which you need to take ALL cables from the same brand. Nevertheless, sound quality on Q5 and also Zellaton speakers was excellent (in particular for the soundstage and no grain / very relaxed impression).

Odin are just too costly for me, though...
I'll report my findings on the ECHOLE cables. I have good hopes it will be interesting on my Sasha's

And BIG Congrats for your new dream speakers !!!

I would recommend Siltech Royal Signature series cables. I heard a pair of Q1's driven by Vitus Signature series gear & a full loom of Siltech Royal Sig series cables & was blown away...that combination had amazing synergy

Heard also a lot of good things on Siltech with Magico. Would love to give it a try one day

HOME | SCHNERZINGER Molecular Processing for Audio | Audio Kabel/ Cable

The top: no Mit or others....

+1 for Siltech Royal Signature.

Toga... The Zitron will be a interesting experience with your Q7s. Lovely sparkle & decay at the top end but I found they lacked in the mids in my system at their level of burn in when I had them.

here they are.

T

Why don't you take a breath here and just break-in and enjoy the Q7's with your current gear?
It seems like your all over the place and rushing the process. Get the Q7's broken in, off the wheels and positioned, then move on to new cables, etc.
If you are not happy with the Q7's and chasing something that you have no basis to draw on it will be a never ending compromise. You are much more methodical than this!

There is no rushing. And I am totally happy of what Q7 do at current state .
I am not fixing anything in Q7 sound with cables. These are all for fun.

I just wanna upgrade IC to match Q7 capability.

As I mention I am not pulling the trigger soon, but I am a busy guy, when there is chance
To try some nice cables in two days off work that I have, why not. Not easy to arrange to
Borrow them at same time, so I took the chance.

Chance is high that I will take Transparent OPUS, just wanna find something similar at lower price.

Anyway, thanks for reminding me to calm down. I just too excited with the Q7. It s exciting to see how
They response to different cable setting..

Sadly I will not have ten days to stabilize each cables as ideal. All of them have been in constant use at showroom
However.

Toga

Looking at that photo makes me feel like a kid walking in to Toys' r' us :drool:

Stereohead, it 's exactly like that.

I listened to all SC except Kubala tonight.
I am happy to report that all of them deserve to be high end cables. All of them
will serve most high end system very well.
One show their strength 95% of the time, only 10% on certain types of music that they show what they're seriously lacking in body and weight, noticeable in male voice for example.
one play exciting sound but quite artificially processed, like artificially flavored orange juiced, but some may like it,.
one is very well balanced, do not lacking in anything, voices not as rich as my cables,
some details missing, but overall very satisfying sound. price is very right too. I would definitely choose this one if I don't already have TR Reference MM.
back to my own SC, compare to the third samples, tonal is very similar with my cables
richer in voice, weightier down low and more details across spectrum.
One interesting points is that on Kubala and Shunyata, the way they terminate spades to copper wire do not look very professional at all, the work is like DIY.

no time for any IC and Kubala SC yet for now

Toga
PS this is a casual comparisons, it is not ideal review, so do not take it seriously.
just wanna share.

Interconnect were even more interesting. They're all sound different, but none can be call
upgrade to each other. just different. choice will be by personal preference rather than
selecting the better one.
With all showing positive result then I will tell the name. Keeping everything constant, I swap IC out of DAC one by one.
1. Shunyata Anaconda Zitron, they were very very beautiful sounding, smoother sweeter than other. treble smooth and less energy but never lacking. the smoothness and pleasing sound appear on every song I played. similar to Emotion that I tried long ago. Best bang for the buck.
2. Elation, absolutely neutral tone, don't know what to say because everything is just there, colorless may I say ?
3. Transparent Ultra MM2, very similar tonality to Elation, stronger impact, more energy across the spectrum, like Elation with sport package. but they never sound fatigue
or hard at all, I used this since 2007, that's how happy I am with them.
4. the other one which I may not stabilise them long enough , sound similar to watching TV with Sharpness control fully up, and of course I don't like this artificial feel.

If I upgrade from TR Ultra to any one of them, I will get a different sound, but all equally good. So this upgrade doesn't seem necessary at this point. But Transparent offer
4 more steps to climb, while what Shunyata offer right now is there best.

One last thing to play today is to try Elation SC, a loom of Anaconda Z all at once and Elation loom all at once.

Toga

Toga,

I'm new here but I just want to say thank you for sharing so much of your experience with us. You are playing with the kind of gear many of us only dream about and will probably never get to test these sorts of comparisons ourselves! I've been dreaming about Magico since the first Mini came out, and it was only this year that I even heard Magico the first time! By reading your posts I can at least pretend I know how this gear sounds :p

Thanks Manbient, one thing to remember in this hobby is that we will never have sound same as live performance, amplified or
un amplified. So choose what we like. Many kinds of coloration or distortions is already recorded and we playback by adding some more. Sound good at home may not necessary be realistic kind of sound. We don't want a drum set sound that real in living room all the time , for example , as real drum set are very loud and cause ears strain. I explore new stuffs and enjoyed doing so , being An engineer that is my nature, so I am not chasing perfection here or trying to get the absolute sound, I do it purely for pleasure, creating a pleasant sound and music.

A this moment frankly I don t care about how Q7 sound anymore, I just care to learn how each cables sound like . Q7 is like not in the loop Anymore. It s like testing many different cars on unlimited space flat terrain. That s how Q7 play the part here.

Now I am going removed every Transparent cables out and replaced with Anaconda Z. To see how they work as a team.

Toga

Toga, I'm guessing a full Zitron loom of the Anaconda vintage will win as an everyday listener.

Dear Toga, as you are lucky enough to have full sets of IC and SC, I believe the ultimate tests is to compare brand against brand, both IC and SC from the same brand being connected at the same time.

I understand you can do a Shunyata versus Transparent versus Kubala Sosna shoot-out.

Because you are very experienced in this hobby, you know that you'll need 30 min to 1 hour "stabilization time' after each IC and SC cable swapping before being able to make a significant judgement about sound quality. ;)

Your findings will be very interesting!

Cheers from France

Sadly, but second pair of IC are Python Zitron rather than Anaconda. Adding them between pre>power instead of Transparent Ultra made sound too mellow and lost energy. I prefer only one Anaconda from Dac and Transparent pre> power more.

Back to Elation, one from Dac is great, adding more from pre and sound become liger in weight and brighter overall.
Bass weight is reduced, confirming to my observation that Transparent always provide more lower bass energy while
Not the most airy cables afound.

What kept constant here on power side are

Furutech GTX Gold + Audioquest WEL PCs feeding direct to Moon amps.
Furutech GTX Rhodium + MIT Oracle AC2 with Oyaide 004 feeding Running Spring Maxim power conditioner.
And from Maxim, Anaconda zitron PC feeding disc transport, Transparent PLMM2x with Oyaide004 feeding DAC,
RSA HZ feeding RC Ref40.

Not sure if you can get UK cables but you could try DNM Stereo Solid Core Interconnect - noting that it is not shielded (which may matter to you).

Stealth Sakra, price is 50% of Opus MM2.

STEALTH audio cables

http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/pr...sakra_1000.jpg

I vote for Elation.

Complete set of Elation are quite extraordinary sounding and cost the same as a pair of Opus interconnect.
They are truly flat and pure. Bass not as weighty as TR even Ultra model, but high is more airier.
Transparent work out woofer, Kubala work out tweeter, but both are pretty much neutral.
Shunyata have smooth and sweet sound following everywhere, so I think they have some characters.

But that s a matter of preference as an AA member here once told me he prefer Shunyata s much more than Elation.
He use Magico S5 and RC tube electronics and play mostly LP.

I have Kubala Sosna Elation (SC, IC and PC), but I didn't knew they costed as much as Transparent Opus... My impression is that the Opus stuff is way more expensive...


alexandre

I've has KS Elation speaker cable in my system for a few years. To me it is good but not the game changer it was touted to be. Nice highs, good bass, thin midrange. Not as airy and open as I'd like.
Sometimes I feel its not what you have but what you can get to determine the likes and dislikes you have with your gear...
I feel with cables you have to look to the designer to see what is used, especially for the speakers. At least a good place to start.
For instance in Magico's case it's MIT. In Wilson's case its Transparent. And even then, if you have a sense of the industry, there are politics to be considered as to who uses what!

I mean a complete set of Elation , 2 IC + SC can buy only a pair of OPus IC.
I heard the Kubala range topper will be debut soon. Better than Elation.

Toga

Hi Toga,
Was quite surprised by the outcome in your system, had expected MITs or Transparents to come out top there, interesting..

I had KS Elation SC, IC and PCs.. While good cable overall/excellent in some respect - well balanced, neutral, open, detailed, quite dynamic sounding. I found them to be a little lacking in the 'drama' dept. - ie.substance, weight, dimensionality, as well ultimate blackness/detail/micro resolution as when compared to few (admittedly) more costly competitors. That was back some 2-3 years ago, and I'm led to believe one could do even better today. Hopefully their soon to be released number will prove itself a winner.

Thanks for sharing with us your valuable experiences! ..and I'm sure, more upcoming further thoughts as well.:thumbsup:

Bvdiman,

I mean, I voted for the Kubala among all the loan cables, Like if I have to choose one for free, I would choose Elation.
If I have to pay then Shunyata is not a bad choice at all.
As I mentioned, this is all a matter of preference, our priority also different. I care for tonal balance, dynamic, refinement , I care less about dimensionality , stage depth or that illusion stuff. And I don' t have much experience about cables, I have only Transparent for quite a long time.
About Transparent, mine IC are the much lower model down the product line, they are the most punchy , attack the hardest, deep bass slam stronger, treble not quite as airy, smooth or feel extended compare to Elation, they are not sweet and warm like Shunyata' s. but overall, they are pretty much character less as well.
However two friends of mine told me to go Opus they use Opus in their system and told me nothing come close.
He will let me try his Opus Soon. Luckily his amplifiers are also Moon, so no big mismatched calibration here.
For now I packed Nordost, MIT, Shunyata back into the box. Will learn more on Elation, will try mix and match between Kubala and Transparent.
Toga

Toga,
That is what I'm trying to say.. Since Transparent seems to already match your system/preferences pretty well, why not just fill-in that missing link and go straight for Opus. I believe this will help dampen that big haunting 'what if' feeling, and save you money in the longer run from further switching in/out cables.

Regardless of preference/priority, most decent cables in the caliber you are testing should tick all that characteristics you placed highly as a given, whilst moving up the chain should only extend that to what you now probably care less about as bonus ~ almost always a more 'complete and wholesome' depiction along with further added refinements which will inadvertently help us to connect to the music even more. Perhaps akin to your Q3 to 7 move - which I feel is a good one.

In my limited experience, living with a cable for an extended period of time can sometime generate differing outcome from that of a quick euphoric few days of test - which could be costly if later found to be the wrong choice. So longer term loan is preferable whenever possible before pulling the trigger, especially on big bucks cabling.

Anyway, have gathered from elsewhere (other threads) and learn that Opus too is actually your set target, and that all these testings being only partly just for fun and sharing of experience.. Again, thanks for that. Good luck, and most importantly, have fun while at it. :music:

First time I've heard about this cable so I checked the website. What intrigued me is the RCA insertion procedure, seems that because of the design of the connector a substantial amount of force is required to accomplish a proper connection. Not cheap either. You must be really satisfied with its performance to recommend it, Anatta. I guess Toga's problem and shared by non US residents is how to get a sample that we can audition.

Bvdiman, besides having fun I was also expecting miracle here too, that I may find something that I can be happy with for less $$$ than what OPUS will cost me. And that really might be the Elation,with Elation I can do the true bi-wiring too by using two set of single wire cables. ditch the jumpers. I will wait to see and hear the new Kubala ranger topper. I like Kubala because they offer something that I like from Nordost without things that I don't like. But watching movie clearly tell that dynamic contrast and impact is somewhat less than Transparent's.

Dafos, nice to hear from you. You're right, we really don't have to luxury to listening to every available brands and I will not invest in something that don't hold value too. Even Kubala, I expect them to be a keeper.

Toga

Hi toga, nice to see you have some off time to enjoy those magnificent q7's. I use a whole set of kubala emotion IC's and sc, except for the pre to power amp connection where I'm now auditioning a set of wywire gold ic's. I moved my source components to the side of the room so now I'm faced with the expensive proposition of using at least a 7m IC, and cables don't come cheap at that length. I've tried a few to compare with my kubala emotions, including a vdh d 102, transparent super mm, cardas clear and the present wywire gold. Even without considering the price, the wywire seems to be the sweetest and musical without sacrificing detail. Unfortunately dealer does not have a 7m emotion for me to make a direct comparison so I must rely on memory on how my system sounded when I was using the emotion bet pre and power. Anyway happy auditioning and I hope to be able to visit you again sometime in the future to hear your upgraded system.

Toga, if you're leaning to spending the money for the Opus then I would suggest listening to the new MIT MAX-SHD cables. I had all Elation in my system for the past 4 years and tried the Opus MM2 last year.

Unfortunately for my wallet, I put the MAX SHD speaker cable in my system and was immediately hooked. I now have the SHD ICs inserted as well and could never imagine cables doing what these have done for my system. They are far superior to the MAX-Rev2 edition. I listened to those as well. I'm using the bi-wire version of the speaker cable.

The Elations are very good cables. I was extremely happy with them but these MITs are in a different league. Only bad thing about them is they take forever to break in.

Dafos, that s the situation I avoided.,I do not want to pay for longer than usual cables, so i put them closer together.

A friend of mine used very long Emotion before, now he use DartZeel which require special interconnect, Not sure he still keeping those Emotion or not. In case you might be interest to buy.

Frank750, what you said was interesting, I will ask for demo. But what I am trying to do is to find something that I like
While cost less, not looking for something even more expensive. Is the biwire MIT true biwire? Or just have four tails to eliminate the need for jumpers. Biwire principle requires truly separate wires from source to load between LF and HF, even Transparent admit they are not true biwire.
Thanks for suggestion
Is this what you are using ?

You're right, if it's something less expensive you want then I would stay away from these cables. Yes, the picture you posted is what I'm using for the speaker cable. And yes, it does have the bi-wire tails coming from one cable but.....they must be heard to be believed. The MAX-SHD ICs aren't showing on the MIT website yet but they are available.

I'm looking at the MIT MIT MAX-SHD spk cables to replace my Elation's so I find this part very interesting. Haven't gotten them into the system yet but from all my contact reports these are the cables to get with the Shunyata's the second to be considered.

Frank750,

What is it in the sound of SHD that hook you, will you please give me more details?
Do you keep the knob in center or turn them some way? What is your preferred articulation switch position?
You also use SHD with Magico Q7 too right, are the tails long enough to keep network box on the floor?
I better calm down and not torture my own wallet more. May be 2 pair of Transparent Reference IC at $4,xxx
Are what I need. Recently I spent too much for this hobby. Talking about Opus or SHD may be too much of a
Day dream to me. .. Sigh..
Toga

T

You can order custom length tails....

Audioquest dealer will send me a set of WEL in ten days or so.

Speaker or IC ?