Maximum Speaker for Room Size/ Focal Maestro Plus M400
 

Considering replacing my Focal Scala speakers.

Would the Focal Maestro be the biggest Focal speaker that would work in a dedicated room of 3.5m (12ft) by 5m (17ft) or do you think the Stella could work?

That is a difficult question. The Stella's are fine speakers but I have only heard them in larger demo rooms than what you indicate. That said, it doesn't mean they won't sound great.

I generally notice that even in smaller rooms I can really enjoy most speakers even some that shine in bigger rooms( within reason of course) ... While the speakers may perform better in a larger room .... they still may outperform the smaller set in your room.There are some exceptions for sure though so the only way to know is to bring a set home if you can. I just moved this weekend and luckily moved into a much bigger room and while my speakers were pushing the boundary's in the prior room I still really enjoyed them ... and while they do sound much better now they sounded better than a smaller speaker in the old room. Good luck!

Thanks guys. Trying the speakers isn't an option unfortunately. The Stella is an almost 100% increase in price over the Maestros - if I'm going to pay that premium I need to get my money's worth. Sounds like I'll have to play it safe and go with the Maestros.

So finally got the Maestros installed. WOW. On another level entirely than the Scalas. From the first second of playback, it was obvious that there was no comparison. The midrange clarity is startling. The tweeter is so much smoother than the one on the Scala. The seamless top to bottom integration is something that I didn't expect. I was really worried about the low end overpowering the room, but it's actually much better in that regard than the Scalas. Really everything I hoped it would be and then some. And that's with no break in. Can't wait to hear the final results.

Congratulations on your new setup. May I ask how far from the walls, and how far each speaker is placed from their respective center?

I just plopped them down where I thought they might sound decent - I haven't done any tuning and won't until 500 hours or so.

Right now 32" from wall to center, 53" from back wall to front center and 80" center to center.

Very nice. Would be great to have the room (and wallet & strength to move) to set up a pair of Maestro Utopia speakers. I'm thinking a pair of Sopra #2, but not sure they will fit well enough. Once we get moved I'll rethink speakers. But find the Focal sound second to none. Too bad you are not a AA subscriber, would be nice to see a pic of your system.

The nice thing about all the newer Focals is that they have the ability to make small adjustments depending on the room. You'd prefer not to have to make them, but there's the comfort of having them if they're needed. I can't imagine a place other than a walkin closet size room where the Sopra 2 would not work.

You can find my system on the 'gon but I haven't uploaded pics of the new setup with the Maestros and the incoming Shunyata Denali.

edit: I'll reserve judgement on the Maestros until breakin is complete as I'm not sure my earlier comment was entirely correct.

How are your Focal Maestros breaking in??? Also were you able to get a reasonable price with your audio dealer as the EVO model is being released very soon???

Regards

The break in is ongoing but probably haven't been able to put even 100 hours on them so far due to various reasons since they're in a shared room. I have been really enjoying the system with the Maestros - there have been some minor hiccups during the break in process but for the most part they sounded pretty amazing on day one and still sound pretty amazing - I knew my earlier speakers were holding back the system but I was still pretty surprised at just how much performance I was leaving on the table with the Scalas. The major piece that is still up in the air is the bass - it is slowly coming in but still doesn't have the physical force that I've heard from the Maestros in other setups. We'll see once break in is done and they are spiked.

I got a really good deal on the Maestros due to a mixup which is why I have them (as opposed to waiting for the EVOs) which actually worked out better for me in retrospect. Due to the mixup I forced my dealer to also agree to provide me with Maestro near full purchase price tradeup value to EVOs, but after a couple of days with the Maestros I told them he needn't bother - I will be keeping the Maestros long term. The Maestro EVO for me, is not really attractive versus the Maestros.

Thanks for the update. Sounds like your dealer has been quite helpful which is a definite plus. I can imagine that once fully broken in and positioned to your liking, the bass performance will be most impressive. Just comparing a side by side view with the Scala is quite remarkable. Enjoy and if you don't mind giving an update as you get to the optimum sound that you are striving for...

https://s7.postimg.org/w4gx22o7f/IMG_0461.jpg

So I'm now north of 100 hours and I'm a little relieved that the punchy bass that I've heard the Maestros produce elsewhere is starting to come in along with the subterranean bass (I'm guessing my neighbors are not happy).

The treble and the midrange are a little up and down but these are, relatively speaking, minor changes compared to the changes to the bass - not sure there will be a significant change in performance of these aspects of the speakers as break in continues (not that I'm complaining about the performance to date).

Based on what I've read, these speakers will take a while to break in (not less than 500 hours), so it'll probably be some time before I can fairly pass judgment.

Given the size of the Maestros, they aren't visually overpowering the room as I had feared (I think the tapered design and down-angled top along with the black color really help with this) - my wife doesn't mind them since to her they only look slightly larger than the Scalas from the couch (I think the vastly improved midrange performance sold her on the Maestros right off the bat so she's not inclined to complain about them anyway).

I have the same front end as you but running Krell Evolution One and Two's for pre and power. I am seriously considering changing my Dynaudio C4 to the Scala V2 or after your review I am also considering the Maestro's. My concern is the size of my dedicated listening room only being 12' x 16' x 8'. The room is dedicated to 2 channel audio and has absorption, diffusion and bass traps in the corners. Do you think the Maestro's will overpower my room?

Just wanted to make sure the ceiling is also treated. I think you'll have to treat it with either of the speakers.

In terms of size, the Scala is a little over 4ft and the Maestro is pushing 5ft tall. On an 8ft ceiling you're not leaving much breathing space with the Maestro. In terms of your components (I'm assuming what you have is a typical Krell monster doubling all the way to 2ohms - it needs to be since the Maestro needs power, which is not the case with the Scala), the Maestro is the proper fit, but the room is really tight for a speaker that big. If the ceiling was 10ft or higher I'd tell you to rock and roll with the Maestro.

As you read above, I had the opportunity to go for Stella, but at a 100% price differential I wasn't willing to take the risk and stuck with the Maestro, which I'm very happy with. You're looking at a similar situation with the Scala and Maestro. I don't think you'll be unhappy with Scala and it will be a considerable upgrade over what you have now.

I just don't feel comfortable giving a clear go on the Maestro in your room.

Nice to read your impressions, im sure it sounds gorgeous!

However, is the midrange driver and the tweeter not the same on the Maestro and the Scalas? The specification sheet for both reads the same.

Although they look identical, the midrange is custom made for the Maestro. Focal is able to cut and tweak the driver composition for different purposes since everything is made in house. For the tweeter, it looks similar as well, but it's much smoother.

I have had both on my room similar sized at 10.5' x 21' x 10'.

Speakers were 6 feet out of the room. As you know the maestro were designed to allow near field recording in studios.

The maestros are indeed more relaxed, smoother and warm midrange and highs. I would say the scalas are not as warm and natural, added some harness and brighter.

Bass wise, the scala was more than sufficient and kept them. Reason being i felt that the maestros could be used in the room, if you like it louder, it comes alive with ease and feel it then wants to breath even more to open up beyond the boundaries of the room. The pressure in some cases (playing loud and feeling the visceral bass lines) again felt at time it started to overload the room, it's natural than the energy just wants to come out. Other areas of the house were filled with tremours and wall resonating;)

The bass adjustment doesnt do anything at my concert listening levels. The Stella with the bass output volume adjustment controls would be able to control the bass output much more.

I love the physical size, which is not over imposing but still majestic looking in my room which is not large.

The Scalas can sound more exciting with more snap for certain uptempo music, but the notable ease and smoothness of the maestros, it is no match. I feel maestros will excel with large scale music, ideally i would like a 16' wide room and allow it to show it's staging.

The scalas in a 25' wide by 20' room at the dealers failed to fill the space, sounded like monitor speakers.

It comes down to one not trying to fit the largest speaker which you "feel" may be playable in a given room, but be thankful that you don't have a room too big which will need mega amp and the like of a Stellas or Grandes to even work. Of course the sound then would be a totally different story. It save a lot of money having a system in a dedicated room not too large.

I agree with the above in that you need to always match the speakers to the room.

However, in my system and in my smallish room the difference between the Scala and the Maestro wasn't subtle - treble is much smoother, midrange is significantly clearer and bass is more controlled and less chubby (I had the V1 so may be less of an issue on V2) while also being subterranean on the right recordings (you feel like it's coming from below the floor as opposed to the speakers). However, the thing that I really wasn't ready for and one of the biggest selling points to me of the Maestros is that they are a single point source in terms of their sound - it's satisfyingly cohesive. I never felt that about the Scala.

Out of the entire Utopia floorstanding lineup, the Scala, while a fantastic speaker, is the one that has obvious areas for improvement in all facets. I expect that the EVO will be a marked improvement in all areas given what looks like a smoothed out treble, clearer midrange and tighter bass.

On the other hand, I'm not interested in (although I understand why Focal made the change and from a sales point of view it is absolutely the right decision) a downgraded 3 way Maestro EVO simply to make it easier to drive and compatible with a much wider range of partnering amplifiers (the Maestros currently need ridiculous amounts of power to open up).

Bar,

Exactly the characteristics i found between of the scala and maestro.

How do you rate the general sonics characteristic of your room, was it the direction of neutral bright opposed to neutral warm?

great speakers, do you have a picture of how the speakers are set up in the room ?

Do you mean is my room underdamped or overdamped?

Yes , underdamped in the sense of brightness or duller if overdamped.

I felt the maestros were more neutral but retaining that midrange smoothness at the dealers.

I would still love a pair as it has been some time ago and i made improve my room acoustics since.

Mine was on the warmer side, though the Maestros were superior, in some areas, the Scalas seemed to suit better.

I used to have a warmer sounding room.

The Maestros were like a big cc long distance cruiser and the scalas more a little town racer.

It was amazing the Maestro allowed a close field monitor like listening position @ 2 m.

My room is definitely not overdamped, it's a living room all concrete with tile floor. I've treated it as much as I can - large rug, acoustic panels and bass traps along with furniture and shelving.

My room is definitely not overdamped, it's a living room all concrete with tile floor. I've treated it as much as I can - large rug, acoustic panels and bass traps along with furniture and shelving.


I haven't done any tweaking. It's still in the same position with just a little bit of adjustment to original toe in. I should get my new audio points in the next couple of weeks and then will see. Unfortunately this site has a weird policy on pics so nothing I can post here. You can see general location in my system on audiogon (which shows my earlier Scalas).

Same here. I have tried mine is three diferent rooms, and my findings is
1) they work best in untreated room, basicaly the less sound absorbtion the better and more open midrange( going with better absorbtion midrange becomes closed in as bass upper bas overhelm everything)

2) it can be listened in midfield.

3) this is the only speakers which drawns me in to the music, without distracting. the only distracting may be bass power, but once speaker position proprely its just seamles. it have some politeness in mids comparing to wilson audio sasha, but it project enormuos life like image , and most speaker after it sounds like tiny monitors.

So one of the things that I didn't realize about my MX-R Twenties is that they go 300W/8ohms 600W/4ohms but then fizzle out at 720W/2ohms. Not a problem for most speakers (for example, my earlier Scalas were fine) but I think that explains why the Maestros don't feel like they've opened up and completely let loose - they need current into 2ohms. I'll see what more watts down low does in a couple of months when my new amps come in.

Btw, I've been playing around with the tweeter jumper. Putting the tweeter jumper into the high position changes the character of the treble - more open and energetic. More "exciting" but still smooth.

Before you are too hard on the MX-R Twenty, do you know what the behavior of Pass amps into two ohm loads is?

For example, when Stereophile tested the INT-150 integrated, they found at clipping it delivered 198w into 8 ohms, 284w into 4, but just 225w into 2.

i think its exception, some time ago I have read that xa30.5 rated as 30W amps actualy had 332wats(!) at 2ohms. Most pass labs amps have overbuilt powersuplies and doubling power to 2 ohms.

Huge difference between the M400 and the MX-R Twenty. I've only been listening for a few hours but the magnitude and nature of the upgrade reminds me of my KX-R Twenty upgrade which I consider transcendent.

How do you like them with Maestro Utopia?

Comparing an older generation Pass INT-150 with Ayre's top line monos at multiples the price would be misleading at best.

Pretty impressive. They're not broken in but they're even more impressive on the Maestros versus the MX-R Twenty than was the case when I demoed both amps on the Avalon Isis.

Right off the bat more energy, resolution and speed. Many more layers of music with greater seperation and a lower noise floor. Better control and grip and decay is enhanced. Background vocals are now no longer blended into the background and vocals are more intelligible. No more bass fatness. No complaints at this stage but let's see over extended listening as they break in.

I've had the system on 24/7 since Friday (was broken in for 2-3 days by my dealer before that) and over today it's just transformed. Light years ahead of first listen.

Super smooth, supple yet forceful bass, vocals no longer have an edge. Supremely musical - changing fundamentally some songs I've heard 100s of times. Background, low level and surround effects I've never heard before. Pace is more relaxed but just right.

These amps are worth every dollar. I can't believe amps can make such a difference.

I also repositioned the speakers. Moved them in from the side walls and reduced toe in to only 1/2 inch. May need slightly more toe in but nothing that's urgent.

edit: New pics up on Audiogon if anyone wants to see. Just go to Virtual Systems and search for "Desert" it'll bring up my system with the Maestros as one of the top results.

So now that's it been a couple of months, I think I can definitely say that the Maestro is the biggest speaker that will work in that room (I'm currently using it in a similar sized living room) and I definitely made the right choice in not trying to fit the Stella.

Ultimately more toe in wasn't needed; what was needed was to use the amazing jumper system on the Focal Maestro. The low end always appeared to be slightly heavy - not annoying but too much many times, but other times I actually liked it depending on the music. The Shunyata Denali definitely helped to control the bass along with the M400s but it was still a bit much and so I took the step of setting the bass jumper on my speakers to the low setting (-1.5db I think). That was an eye opener. Suddenly, not only did the bass even out but the low end become significantly more articulated and it was apparent that the bass at the normal setting had been smearing not only the low end performance but also the lower midrange of the system.

Finally, I updated my EMM Labs DA2 to V2 firmware (free update) and the system was complete. As much as the TX2/DA2 was by far the best digital I had ever heard, the V2 firmware transformed the DA2 to such a degree as to be unrecognizable - effectively, if you've only heard the DA2 with initial firmware, you have at most an inkling of what the DA2 is capable of. The TX2/DA2 now isn't good digital, it's the digital I've been dreaming about since I started this build in 2005.

I currently have Sopra 3's having had the No2's and I was think of going to the Scala V2, I'm not sure how much better the Scala V2 will be over the Sopra's

Hi.
I just started a thread on speaker placement calculators.
I had success with this one. It gives you options on speaker type.
Good luck.

https://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers.html

How much better I couldn't tell you but based on what I've read from people who have made the move, it's obviously and clearly better. I assume you're getting a good deal on a used set.

well the Maestro III and Scala V2 are on phase out so it's only a $5000 difference if given full retail value trade of $19999 towards the $25000 Scalas

The Maestro and Scala V2 have been out of production since the beginning of summer 2017. I'm surprised that any dealer still has new stock. $5k for an upgrade is not bad at all and the Scala is a very good speaker.

Things to consider are that the tweeter can be a little rough in certain cases and the speaker is prone to accentuating sibilance so it's important not to have a bright leaning system. I had the original Scala for many years and got a lot of enjoyment out of it within its limits.