Too late now. I'm married to the 113 although I have the ability to return the SVS without penalty. I like it better so far but if the SVS does end up outperforming it in the end, somebody will get a screaming deal on the JL. Whichever one ends up living here, it will find itself in the company of another from the same tribe. I agree with you about the utility of the full crossover on the E series. I wish the F113 had that feature.

Thanks, Ricjor (Rick?) and also, thank you Lew for your responses. I'm wondering about the effects of different size cones in subs for use in my space. My general impression is that (typically, as we know there are always deviations) the smaller cones can have a tighter bass while a larger cone can go deeper. In my instance, with my WP8's, I have good bass, but the room allows an emphasis node I think I could calm with a couple of subs and am trying to decide what size I need. Since my Wilson's have two 8 inch woofers per side, I was thinking that getting a couple of ten inch subs might just be the ticket for my room, but maybe a couple of twelve inch subs might be the way to go. I might play with some Elac wireless subs since they are relatively inexpensive. Anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread.

The biggest problem encountered integrating subs into a system is NOT that they are too large.

It's that they are dialed in at too high a frequency without the benefit of an active crossover creating too much overlap with the mains, played too loudly or combinations of the above.

An active crossover is the secret to good subwoofer integration.

Couldn't agree more. The lack of a high pass leg is a design/feature oversight that creates issues. I have avoided most of the negative interactions by setting the low pass filter at 30Hz and 24dB per octave, but that's as far as I can go without a crossover. The scarcity of analog crossovers has been noted in my subwoofing thread on the Revel board. Notwithstanding, the JLA F113/2 is doing well in my rig.

I have the SB16 Ultra and I'm really disappointed with it. In my system/room it sounds bloated/fat, not tight and articulate. I've tried making adjustments, but it just isn't musical in a 2-channel system. Just my 2 cents!

As a result of some interactions and discussion on another forum, I've added REW to my (very) modest toolbox. I also ordered a USB mic to use so I can plot the actual results as well as using the predictive capacity of REW. My "expert" and former Harman system integration amigo is coming here for a few days over the holiday and I'm enlisting him and his SMAART rig to aid in the tuning, but that's a couple of weeks out. Meanwhile, it's still the JLA that integrates into my system without absolutely demanding the crossover to make a subjective positive contribution.

I have 2 f212v2's in my main system and a f112v1 in another. JL makes the best sub on the market.

No problem, for me, take it where you want to go!

I'll have some more information to add about how these two particular subs work within my room in a week or two, but I don't think it's woofer size per se that defines many salient differences.

The interactions between the room and the subs is one aspect of performance, integrating them with the main speakers is another. If all else is equal, the room is a huge factor and probably outweighs something like trying to decide between any two or more devices based just on woofer size. It's a whole new discipline for me because it has so many variables and constraints.

I think I have a good room, but not a great room. I wish it was bigger and that I had more money! I have other wishes but nobody wants or needs to hear them:D

Could not be more true...

In the pro universe nobody would ever think of running a multi way/multi amplifier system without an electronic crossover. But in the high fidelity world, they sell us subs with half of the crossover but not the other half. It's a marketing decision that reduces the owner's ability to do an accurate implementation of the product without additional expense entailed.

Ten years ago (well, maybe fifteen) you could source analog crossovers, with balanced connections as well, from an array of manufacturers at any price level you were prepared for. It's become impossible to find a quality analog crossover in the pro universe as they've all gone digital with every conceivable management feature including PEQ, delays, each with a full battery of mix or match filter slopes and crossover points. In hifi, if you want balanced connections, I think it's pretty much Bryston and JLA. I'd like either of those, would probably buy a JLA because I believe it's more cost effective. But that's for another time.

I wish they included the high pass leg when they sold you the sub. It would make things so much easier.