C1100 vs Reference 6 vs No 326s
 

As I was auditioning speakers last week also had a chance to compare 3 well known preamps and wanted to pass along my observations. The rest of the system was ...

Wilson Sasha 2
McIntosh MC-601
AR Dac9
Berkeley Alpha USB
Windows Laptop with Roon
All Transparent IC and SC

Firstly ... I was there primarily auditioning speakers and brought my preamp so the system would be the same minus the room! So here goes ...

McIntosh C1100 ... the first time I heard the setup was with the C1100. Right from the start I didn't emotionally connect with this combination which surprised me quite a bit. I had heard something similar with the older C1000 and really liked that combo. The best way to describe what I heard was that it seemed a bit overdone on the top end. Could have been the cable combination as well. Something to note though is that I had been auditioning ML 15a's as well and with the C1100/MC-601 combo it seemed bright and flat. Even my wife described it as flat sounding. Anyway ... that was what prompted me to bring my Levinson in for a listen

No326s ... The brightness that I heard with the C1100 if you could call it that was immediately gone. Bottom end was better defined and the sound stage really exploded. The music now had more body and was a much richer sound without being overly lush. Detail was similar but with more space and a much blacker background. This combo was by far a better combo. Again not sure why but we all agreed.

Ref 6 ... This combo is NOT supposed to work well from what I've read. I talked to an employee from Audio Research at a Sales Event last year and he mentioned that he thought the combo worked fine. That said ... it did more than work fine. It was by far the best I've ever heard the MC-601 sound. The sound stage height exploded and while I didn't realize that there had been a lack of presence before ... now with the Ref 6 in the chain it was a real eye opener. Much more 3 dimensional than before and just sounded more real to life. Less like a recreation of the event and more like the event. It was startling how much more open the Reference 6 was than the Levinson. There were areas that sounded very similar between the two ... detail retrieval, harmonic texture, and surprisingly ... the bottom end. Yes ... the bottom end sounded just fine with the Ref 6 and the MC-601. Not fuzzy at all just good extended tight bass.

So ... I guess I know what my next step is once I recover from the Sasha purchase!

Again ... all of this is only valid with the setup I listened to in the room and with the cables we were using. So ... long and short of the story is just because you have and love the MC-601's don't rule out the Ref 6 if you are shopping for a preamp. You might just be surprised.

George

How much beak in time did the C1100 have. As a long time McIntosh Tube amp and preamp owner I know everytime I've retubed one of them they sound bright. I put new tubes in both my MC2102s 3 months and they sounded like breaking glass. After the tubes had 50 hours on them they returned to magical amps! Same with my ARC VSi60. New tubes bright sound.

C1100 vs Reference 6 vs No 326s
 

Something doesn't add up. I own the C1100 and MC601 set up and the last thing I hear is a overdone, bright top end and overall flat sound. Wonder if you would have went back to 1100 at the end if it would have faired better. Well maybe it does add up ... chalk up another one to overall system synergy but with respect to C1100 and 601, the combination is right as rain in the context of my system.

I'm considering the C1100 to control my D1100 as well, j3brow.

I can't speak to break in time at either dealer site I visited ... one I suspect might not be fully broken in but the other had been in the store in their main demo system for quite some time. Doesn't mean it was properly run in either. I too was very surprised by what I heard.

George

I agree it doesn't seem right especially since I've really liked the sound of the 601's with other tube McIntosh preamps. That said ... got the same impression at both locations with lots of different speakers over the past couple of months. I'll probably give it another listen months down the road when I'm ready for a pre ... it should be well broken in by then for sure.

I don't think beak in is a significant issue for the 1100. Guess it's what happens when paired up against world class preamps. I heard the Ref6 in a all AR Ref system .... it was sublime. The 326s isn't no slouch either. I'm just surprised the McIntosh pre didn't fair better paired with McIntosh amps. Maybe if I could hear a Ref 6 in my system I would understand better. But the C1100/601 combo leaves we wanting for nothing at the moment.

While the 326s is really really good ... I was blown away at how much larger a sound stage the Ref 6 was capable of along with better micro detail retrieval with everything else staying the same. I had been totally and completely happy with the 326s until that moment...

What do you think the c1100 is, chopped liver?




The exact same impression I got when I auditioned the c1100 with the 601s. Simply an excellent sounding combination. They were made for each other.

C1100 vs Reference 6 vs No 326s
 

George,

I can connect easily to your impressions. Although I did not hear the new C1100 preamp, I actually have zero interest in it.
The only McIntosh preamp that I really loved and that I could own again was the C1000P.
I found the C1000T to be good. But pretty far from the performance of the P.
With experience to other designs from other brands, tube or SS preamps, I came to the conclusion that, except for the C1000P, McIntosh just does not play in the same park as other high end preamps. Even when used with Mc power amps which is the pinnacle of "something is wrong".
I heard the Sasha 1 years ago during a few hours.
The power amps were the 601's monoblocks. And they were first paired with the C2300 preamp. With stock tubes. The sound was not appealing to me. It was pretty flat and often aggressive. Something I rarely heard in a Mc system !
Then the dealer said "would you mind if we try a little ARC preamp ? ".
"Of course not ! ".
We then heard the 601's with a "small" LS17MKII preamp.
To say that the system just came to life is an understatement. Everything was better.
We tried other power amps, including the ARC REF250's, and the Accuphase A60. I preferred the 601's to the huge 250's, by a wide margin.
But the A60 killed them all. Just a much better match with the Sasha.

That day, I really understood the sentence widely spread in some audiophile groups "McIntosh is for power amps. Audio Research is for preamps".
Of course I know that many at AA will disagree. And I respect their opinion.

But including at my own place, I heard so many Mc preamps failing to play in the same park than similarly priced competitors or even cheaper ones, that I completely lost my interest in McIntosh preamps.
Exception once again for the C1000P.
And I still have dreams about McIntosh power amps !