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B&W 802D3 Owners Club
Just got my speakers unpacked and breaking them in. Now that I had over 20hrs break-in, I can already conclude I am loving every bit of this new generation over my former 802D2. :banana: They have been worth every penny despite the huge upgrade costs!
Unpacking & Setup - simply straightforward and very pleased by the new D3 packaging. Once the boxes are placed in the same listening room, literally one person could set them up by rolling them into place. Koodoos to b&w for this!! I thought I needed a second hand with unpacking them, despite +200lb weight of each speaker, but I was able to roll them out of the boxes and into my listening room by myself. Looks - they are stunning in real life! Bottom line...pics don't do these speakers justice at all. I really recommend seeing them in person. I love the modern clean look of the speakers over the D2 series. I initially had reservations about the new Turbine head's smaller proportion over the main cabinet, but now after staring at the speakers from afar and in my listening seat, they look well suited. Oh and the new continuum's silvery FST adds a nice contemporary touch to my decor. I prefer them to the yellow cones. The speakers appear to be less bulky than the 802D2 too. If I had to make one change, they do look slightly too long by an inch or two, but this doesn't bother me as I don't see the side profile as much. Importantly the front profile looks gorgeous. They are truly works of art!! Sound - who needs a sub?! I have the speakers on full range for break-in and I can immediately tell the Aerofoil bass drivers are leagues ahead of the prior series. The impact, detail, and depth is certainly there in spades. I was playing scenes from my favourite action movies and could swear both my F113s were on but they were completely off. I was skeptical about the new frequency response but the 802D3s surely do reach down very low, much more so than the prior series. The new continuum midrange and tweeter is extremely open. I couldn't stop grinning at the size of the soundstage. The speakers disperse so far too the sides and even somewhat to the back it's incredible! I have a preference to multichannel and movies and the new speakers perform so well. They disappear into the room more so than the 802d2. I'm still going through break-in so hoping these blossom even further... To be honest I took a big hit selling my 802d2's to upgrade to the new D3, and I can certainly say they are a worthwhile upgrade. With the limited time I had with them I can already sense they are going to be very special. These will be the last speakers I get in a very very long time. :music: Looking forward to hearing any other new owners impressions...please share them! |
Congrats! I heard a pair, they are a very nice improvement over the previous gen, I agree.
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For me, the break in process and room adjustments have been a very slow and measured process. Striking how big even minor changes can be. When hefting around 200 pound speakers, not a fun process without a crazy golden ear partner to help (room and placement tuning is definitely not for civilians)
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Hi SMC23,
Glad to hear that you are happy with your new speakers! Best Regards, Patrick B&W Group North America Quote:
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Congrats! Did you get trade in credits with your dealer? Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado |
Wow, they are so different. Big jump from the D2 compared to the D1 to D2 changes. Congratulations!
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Congrats!
Glad you like the new speakers. The D3s are quite special.
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That is an amazing speaker, Only if i had the funds for the 802; i might be able to afford the 804 though
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Congratulations again. The system looks beautiful. Enjoy.....:music: |
I'm going to listen to the 802D3 today, can't wait for this treat
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I'm jealous! The three hour critical audition I did of the 802d3s was one of the most musically magical experiences of my life.
With my holiday guests gone, I'm finally able to start tuning/tweaking my 802d3s in my living room. Long way to go to get to the sound I heard in my audition, but that's what OCD is for ;) |
Hey thanks guys for the kind comments!
UPDATE: So ever since I posted I've been breaking in the speakers, playing around with the placement, and just overall enjoying the new speakers. I would say I have about 50hrs on them now and have settled in on a placement for them. The new spike system is great and so easy to set the speakers. As far as the sound - the bass has started to get more pronounced and the highs starting to settle in and smooth out. What is really starting to unfold is the impressiveness of the new mid-range. Besides the greater soundstage, I am noticing the better attack and quicker decay of notes. Example, snare drums are simply more detailed and punchier through this new midrange. Singer's do seem more forward in your face (good thing), but a little more toe-in helped. What is really intoxicating is just the detail the speakers produce while not being overly bright. I think the highs integrate very well and sound more layered. What I am liking most with the new speakers, is the ability of them producing very complex material with so much ease. This is important for me in demanding movie passages and in bluray concerts, where before I would reach for the remote and lower the volume a few dB, but with the 802D3 they remain very clear and composed. Besides the sound; I would say I have grown especially more fond of the newer modern looks of the 802D3. Despite them being physically larger than the predecessor, they appear to be slimmer. The new front curved cabinet and smaller midrange enclosure definately adds to this perception. For any one on the fence, the 802D3 are really a substantial leap forward in sound. |
Glad you are enjoying your new speakers. Worth the wait - right! :yes:
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Before you bought the 802D3, have you compare them with 803D3? From the other forum. New Bowers and Wilkins 800 series... - Page 3
It is interesting to learn that 802d3 would have all drivers a good blend beyond 9'10". So I sent a message to Patrick of B&W asking him. What would be the 803D3? I have auditioned the 802D3 and I was in awed, but not sure if the new 802D3 would be too big for my room or not. One of the B&W told me so. My room size is 19feet across (speakers along this wall), 17 feet deep, and 8'3" high. It is a dedicated room with brick and cement floor and wall with floor to floor carpet. My listening position is around 4 feet from the back wall. It is around 10 feet from the speakers. Will be driving them with MC2301 a tube 300W monoblocks. Would love to hear your veiw. |
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Apples to apples, they were remarkably similar speakers. 802s had a hair more on the low end, and were more effortless, but they were very very close to my ear (at least in a near ideal listening room) I went with the larger speaker to make sure I had headroom as I was moving into a new home. Knowing what I know now about the 802s and my listening space, I think I could have gotten away with the 803s, but I have absolutely zero regrets (these are phenomenal speakers) My longer write ups are here: http://www.audioaficionado.org/b-w-s...tml#post740769 http://www.audioaficionado.org/b-w-s...tml#post741478 http://www.audioaficionado.org/b-w-s...tml#post741527 Happy to try and help answer any questions you have |
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Thank you very much for the link. It's very informative and I had missed completely. |
Thanks rgbanhari for your insight. I guess the reason I am reluctance is due to the fact that the distance from the speakers to my listening position would be around 10 ft. which is just slightly beyond the recommended distance for the drivers coherency. I will go though the rest of your writings. What is the size of your speaker placement room, if you don't mind me asking.
Krustycat, glad that you find the link useful. I find it refreshing as well. |
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I will be moving the speakers to a dedicated room (15' x 20') sometime in the near future so cant wait for that! |
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Sorry for the previous comment. Actually that is the first post by my 10 month old baby. Anyhow, still waiting for the 803 D3 to be delivered and I got informed that instead of February they will be delivered in March. Looks like they are really wanted.
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Hi ssbkk,
The distance that you quote is where all the drivers first come into focus. The issue is in being closer than 10ft (it's actually less than that), not further away. Regards, Patrick Butler B&W Group North America Quote:
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42" from back wall 95" apart 96" to primary seating position (aka the sofa) 140" to secondary seating position (aka the stool I sit on behind sofa for critical listening) I can confirm that soundstage at 140" is WAY better than primary position Still a lot of work to do to play with speaker and furniture positions (this is a random walk for me right now...suggestions/feedback always welcome). Alas, too much sunshine here in SoCal ;) and still a lot of break hours yet to be burned |
Hi rghanbari,
How much toe-in are you using in your particular setup? Getting a 3 dimensional image at 96" isn't an issue with these designs, provided that the speakers are actually focused during the setup at 96" rather than 140". Best Regards, Patrick Butler B&W Group North America Quote:
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Hi Venere,
A less than directly at the listener, but much more than pointing straight forward. As a general rule, the further apart the more toe-in. Regards, Patrick B&W Group North America Quote:
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I'll experiment with it a bit this weekend |
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Thanks rghanbari and Patrick for your advice. I have just placed an order for a pair of 802D3 and a pair of 804D3 for different rooms. I will use McIntosh C1100 and MC2301 for the 802D3 and MA6700 (200wpc) for the 804D3. I have learned a lot from your posts and will try to experiment with my current 804D2 placements.
I am actually looking for a new integrated amp for the 804D3. Would appreciate any advice based on your experience as to which should be on the short list for a good match with the 804D3. Theoretically, people advises me to stay away from power amp that uses output transformers due to damping factor for speakers that has impedance and phases that is difficult to drive. However, there seems to be synergy between the McIntosh and B&W somehow. What would be the other choices that I should explore? I live in a country which home audition is not possible, so I have to rely on feedbacks and reviews. Thanks |
Hi Iostream,
802D3 and 803D3 converge at roughly the same distance, which is about 9'6". At that point and beyond, everything is converged. Regards, Patrick B&W Group North America Quote:
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Hi SMC23,
Since there are multiple drive units spread out over the baffle, you need to be a certain distance away for all of the drivers to align/converge. 9'6" is the minimum distance for complete alignment (anything past that distance is fine.) The reality is that you can listen a bit closer and will probably not notice any issues, and most customers psychologically get a bit uncomfortable listening much closer when you are staring at a larger speaker. Best, Patrick B&W Group North America Quote:
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I'm guessing it is related to the angular resolution of the human ear. Because the drivers are separated in space, how far away do you need to be for your ear to no longer distinguish them?
9.5'is roughly 10 degrees for drivers separated by 20" center to center. Human hearing localization is frequency dependent, but that is below most of what I've seen, so it would cover most everyone Like all things audio, it is in the ear of the beholder. With a single speaker, close your eyes. Do you hear three different point sources (in space) or does the sound appear to be coming from a single point? As soon as you're far enough away for it to sound like a single point, the drivers have converged (for you). There should be a lot of variation in this distance for different people. I wouldn't be measuring this distance to the millimeter. Of source, stereo imaging (sound stage) it a LOT more precise. That is about phase coherence between the two speakers. Even small changes can have a big impact. All that being said, I haven't taken any acoustic classes since college, so take with a grain of salt |
Thank you!
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So if the 803D3 is as good as the 802D2, is there any point in buying 803D3's?
Bowers & Wilkins 683 Speakers Rotel RB-1090 2 Channel Amp Rotel RC-1082 Stereo Pre Amp Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player Pro-Ject Debut Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red (sitting on a piece of slate supported by 3 "solid tech feet of silence" isolation feet) Rotel RLC-1040 Power Conditioner Shynyata Research SR-Z1 Power Outlet & Venom 3 Power Cords x 4 Tara Labs RSC Vector 1 Speaker Cables & Interconnects Primacoustic Room Treatments |
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I thought the aesthetics of the 803s were a tad bit nicer. In my head to head audition, the 802s had slightly better bass, and were a bit more effortless across the board. However, I was hard pressed to hear a notable difference except in the most demanding sequences. I don't think you can go wrong with either |
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Bowers & Wilkins 683 Speakers Rotel RB-1090 2 Channel Amp Rotel RC-1082 Stereo Pre Amp Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player Pro-Ject Debut Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red (sitting on a piece of slate supported by 3 "solid tech feet of silence" isolation feet) Rotel RLC-1040 Power Conditioner Shynyata Research SR-Z1 Power Outlet & Venom 3 Power Cords x 4 Tara Labs RSC Vector 1 Speaker Cables & Interconnects Primacoustic Room Treatments |
My apologies! I missed that you were asking about 803d3 vs 802d2. I was talking about 802d3 vs 803d3 (which I thought were damn close to each other...very subtle differences, and not clear to me why B&W had both in their lineup)
To your original question, I found the mids and bass much tighter and more natural in 803d3 (and 802d3) than the 802d2. I thought the 802d2 had deeper bass extension than the 803d3, but I preferred the musicality of the 803d3. If I owned the 802d2s, I'm not sure the difference would be worth the price of the upgrade (always a tough decision at these price points), but for me, going 803d3 (or 802d3) new vs buying used or floor model 802d2s was a no brainer. Very very happy I went with the d3. |
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