Auditorium 23 SUT/EMT TSD15/Shindo
 

I thought I would post this here since it relates to Shindo but if Ivan wants to move it to vinyl/turntable forum, that's ok too.

I've been running the Denon 103R through the Auditorium 23 Step up Transformer. As we Shindo owners know, the MC phono stage of the Shindo preamps is really designed for super low impedance cartridges like the Shindo SPU and a few others out there.

I've heard good things about the A23 SUT that works very well with the 103R and was actually designed around the 103 cartridge. Matt was kind enough to send me the SUT to audition. :thumbsup:

I have to say, the 103R MC cartridge going through the A23 SUT and to the MM phono stage of the Shindo Masseto brought on a whole new level of performance. Specifically, the 103R opened up and started to simply blossom in terms of harmonics and took on a more open and effortless sound. It really sounded pretty good going through the Shindo MC without the SUT but by comparison, I was now listening to quite a different sound.

Considering all the minuscule, tiny voltage fluctuations that take place as the stylus tracks the grooves, proper loading is very important for an MC cartridge. The A23 SUT is like matching a modern 6 speed transmission to an engine instead of the 3 gear auto tranny of a vintage car. :D The SUT helps the cartridge to open up harmonically and there is quite a bit more color and fireworks going on when every tiny fluctuation of the stylus is well impedance matched to the phono stage and the cartridge is loaded more favorably. :music:


After spending a few days with the 103R/SUT, I wanted to mount and try the excellent EMT TSD15 cartridge that Matt recommended and is considered a natural step up in performance from the great "bang for the buck" Denon 103R.

For those not familiar, EMT, the company was founded in 1940 by Wilhelm Franz in Berlin and named "Electrical Measuring Technology William Franz KG".

Further history:

History of EMT
EMT Studiotechnik


Off went the 103R and on went the TSD15 cartridge. Careful setup with the excellent Dr.Feickert protractor and the cartridge was aligned and ready to go. :thumbsup:

New, out of the box sound was amazingly smooth with the TSD15. The Denon 103R was just a bit rough and shrill until it had at least a dozen records or so but also smoothed out nicely and continued to break in and open up after that.

I've played 8 records so far on this cartridge and I am really liking what I am hearing. This cartridge is a real smoothie. Gorgeous midrange, slightly fuller and weightier than the 103R, I like that, a bit on the warmer/romantic side of absolute neutral but fits in really nice with the Shindo gear. Bass is quite a bit more potent than what I am used to with the 103R. This is nice, full, round and "wet" analog bass that I enjoy so much. The 15" drivers of the Tannoy are ever so happy to do some "slappin' da bass man" with the TSD15... :D

The EMT sounds a bit darker up top right now and I will follow the break in to see what happens with that but overall, the TSD15 sounds warmish, a bit darkish, extremely musical and very, very easy to listen to. A pleasure of a cartridge. :thumbsup: Listening to some classic rock this evening, some acoustic guitar records as well as some jazz, the TSD15 simply made me forget about the system and really get into the musical groove. :music: Nothing sour coming out of speakers, every note is warm, rich and satisfying. There is some real "meat on the bones" here. :music:


Getting back to the A23SUT, I'd say it is highly recommended for Shindo owners that have not yet stepped up to the Shindo TT/SPU but want to hear what their phono stage is all about while using an MC cartridge that is not super low impedance. The MM phono of the Monbrison and Masseto that I have personally experienced so far are full of magic. It just sounds so rich and colorful! This is not your solid state phono stage. :D

I'll add more comments as the TSD15 breaks in some more. :thumbsup:

Oops, I forgot that we now have a dedicated Shindo forum. :D Ivan, please move this thread. :thumbsup:

Hey! I have an EMT TSD15 cartridge as well, paired with an A23 SUT. Mine is attached to a Lignolab plinth, Garrard 401, and EMT 997 arm. Supplied by that "guy" in San Francisco.

What a small world it is indeed. Photo courtesy of that "guy"....

Barr

http://gallery.me.com/bplexico/10124...13097333220001

Very cool Barr! :thumbsup:

The TSD15 I am using is the "modern tonearm" version for lower mass tonearms but they are probably very close in sound none the less.

Serge, I'm glad to hear that I wasn't hearing things with the A23SUT, it really is a huge improvement and makes the 103R come alive :)

it's not clear from your post, but are you also running the EMT cart through the SUT?

Very nice setup Barr, there was a similar plinth/table/arm combo on a'gon earlier this year but unfortunately I missed it by a few hours.. Is that also the Shindo platter/bearing/weight combo?

What a solid looking/ well built TT!

Barr...WOW! That's a beauty of a 'table. A work of art and the sound is amazing. Congrats to you:thumbsup::music:

Dave

Serge...congrats my friend for the review, links and set up pix. Looking forward to more.

Dave

Serge,

Glad that you are enjoying the A23 SUT and EMT cart. Before I moved to the 301 I enjoyed my time with the EMT cart and the A23 SUT.

My findings mirrored yours... a properly matched SUT lets you hear deeper into the music.

Now that I have the Shindo/Ortofon cartridge I find that it is perfect match for the built in SUT in the Masseto. But... I hear that the "Homage" is even better...

Proper SUT/Cartridge pairing is absolutely essential. I have had a chance to use 7 different SUT's (Cinnemag, Sowter, Lundahl, Hommage, Altec, Silk, Hashimoto) and preferred the Hashimoto with my Koetsu Onyx. The SUT in the Shindo preamps and the Hommage will work with a variety of cartridges but are clearly optimised for SPU type cartridges. Will have a Garrard 301 up shortly so am eager to hear how my new Ortofon SPU classic will sound tapped directly into the VR preamp.

Yep, exact same cartridge (same specs and sound) but different mount -

Yours is the 1.2" 'nude' mount version, Barr's is the SME style bayonet mount.

-M

ps. Glad you are diggin' it, btw. :music:

Hey Scott,

Oh, getting an SPU? Most excellent.. time for the Hommage, my friend! :D (A better match than with the Koetstu, of course..)

:yes:
-M

To all - yes I am very fortunate in terms of the build and setup of the turntable system, Matt did a wonderful job in this regard. And she is quite the looker.

And yes that is a Shindo platter, bearing and weight as well on the turntable. I have two EMT cartridges for it, one for mono and one for stereo.

Barr

Who built the plinth for your Garrard 401?

Very nice and what I like most - very compact!

I believe it's a Lignolab plinth and matching bronze/copper armboard

Plinth for Garrards & Thorens TD 124 - LignoLab Audio Equipment

And, away we go... :thumbsup:

I'm really digging the TSD 15 + Auditorium 23 combo too. I also upgraded from the 103R. The 103R is a fantastic cartridge- probably the best under 1K - but the TSD 15 seems to make the music feel more alive.

I am getting a bad hum with the A23 with several cartridges and preamps including the Aurieges. Where do you guys attach the ground from the TT?
any other look-outs/suggestions?
thanks!

Try different locations (and orientations) of the SUT...most are susceptible to being near other transformers. With a little patience (and luck) you'll find the sweet spot.

Sancho, there is a gold knob on your preamp that is specifically for the TT ground wire. That being said, I have moved my A23 SUT, and all of a sudden, HUM! Then I just play with location, massage the cables a bit, and NO HUM! Try just moving a couple of inches here and there, IF the ground doesn't do the trick. Let us know !

Hi,
Try a grounding loop.
Connect both the ground cable of the TT and the ground cable of the SUT to the ground plug of the preamp.

I mean try a "star grounding". Not a grounding loop ! Sorry !

That's right. Ground both to the pre-amp.

I have a 103 Expert Stylus Co.
Pretty different from the EMT TSD15.
I would say that the TSD15 is more balanced while the 103 puts a lot of bloom and emphasis on the mids.
I prefer the EMT also.

Thanks guys for the suggestions - will try and report back!

some improvement but other cables still too close…need to experiment further

Hum is still very strong despite placing the SUT on a separate shelf by itself alone.
I don't have enough Shindo IC yet so I am using Stealth IC and the Kuzma TTs original cable. Will try some other cable but trying to minimize it due to the sensitive shin do connections on the pre.

"I am using Stealth IC"

And that is the problem.

Jonathan

Yup. They work wonderfully with other gear. I pulled up some decent MIT i had on hand.
Major improvement - still not perfect but almost - much better fit physically. I will do my best to get Shindo IC but i need to await my bonus in March...

Please do not use MIT cables with the delicate Switchcraft plugs, read the Understanding Shindo sticky, even though its now way, way off topic, some info on this is there. Only Switchcraft terminated cables can be used. Its quite possibly you've already damaged the jacks with these "monster" cables.

This is exactly why a dealer is important. So many mistakes are made without support.

Jonathan

Thanks for the guidance - much appreciated.

Auditorium cables are less money then Shindo cables and work very well. They are not exactly the same as shindo but they work with switchcraft plugs and are very great musical cables. Both are excellent choices. I use both with great success.

Not sure if I was clear enough when I wrote this post.

Auditorium and shindo cables both work with the auditorium sut. By that I mean they fit the switch craft plugs perfectly and they have no hum. Neither cable will damage either auditorium or shindo inputs.

Of all the cables I have used in the past with my systems I have found auditorium IC's and Shindo IC's to be the best sonic match for shindo equipment. To me either brand sound exceptional. I have shindo IC's on my analogue section and Auditorium IC's on my digital section. I use Auditoium speaker cables. There are sonic differences between the brands but to say one is better then the other would be near impossible as they are just a bit sonically different, I could see someone preferring one brand over the other but which brand that would be would come down the the individuals preferences.

it was clear - thanks. I do have the A23 speaker cables and a few Shindo IC but simply run out of funds…
While I like the A23 cables the Stealth audio speaker cables I have show wonderful detail, clarity and depth (got them from a friend in a great deal) with all the gear I tried.

Auditorium speaker cables are one of the best deals in hifi. Fantastic cables at a reasonable price.

I would not use anything but auditorium A23 or Shindo IC's with my equipment. That way I know I will not damage the inputs and I know that I have the best sonic match.

I have the EMT TSD 15 and a Soundsmith modified wood body Denon 103. A Bob's Devices 1311 SUT sits between my custom slate Lenco with Schick tone arm and my Aurieges. I love both, and they share similar qualities, with the EMT being the more vivid and detailed of the two. I've never done critical listening to compare them though, so I can't provide more refined distinctions. However, my Shindo dealer doesn't think that the Bob's devices SUT, which is great for the 103 (40 ohm), is the best match for the TSD 15 (24 ohm). I think that there may be an impedance mismatch - the sound is a bit overblown, slightly bloomy, and a tad hot in upper midrange.

Originally, Soundsmith put a wood body and ruby cantilever on the 103, and it sounded phenomenal. Oh, but it was luscious and detailed. It was fragile though, and after the third cantelever snapped, I instructed them to use aluminum. No problems since then, but it lost that extra "technicolor" quality.

I was able to get new A23 ICs but the hum is still there - i will experiment some more with the SUT placement and ground wire. My Kuzma could maybe benefit from a new IC too…
I did put the A23 speaker cables back and they sound fine for sure, but the Stealth clearly beats them (my wife hears significantly bigger difference then I do).

Sancho,

What is your TT ?
Did you check the ground cable on it ? I mean is it really connected to the TT ?

Great suggestion - thanks.
The TTI is a Kuzma Stabi S with Stogi S arm and an Ortofon Kontrapunkt cartridge.

The hum was not there with my previous phono stage (Pass Labs Aleph ONO) and the cable seems to be OK.