McIntosh MC302 Puzzling observation
 

I traded in my McIntosh MC152 and moved on to the McIntosh MC302 as I wanted more headroom. I have been using the MC302 since the middle of February and have slowly come to realize that the natural treble I enjoyed with the MC152, isn’t as good with the MC302. There is less sharpness to the treble. Since I did not change anything else, why would this be so? I was under the impression that the sound should be better with the much larger and expensive amp. The bass is better, deeper and better defined, but the treble sounds shelved down. Ideas anyone?

You may have answered your own question with your 2nd to last statement. If the bass seems better, deeper, and better defined, it may appear that other areas of the frequency spectrum are lacking in comparison.

One would assume that you're using the same taps on the MC302 that you were using with the MC152 . . .

I tried both the 4 and 8 ohm taps and the 8 ohm is better. Someone told me the caps may need replacing, do you think that could be it? I expected the better bass but I didn't think the treble would be affected in a negative way. I am driving a pair of Golden Ear Triton References speakers.

Replace your 302 with a 312
 

I’ve owned 2 MC302s. One was in my home theater, the other in my 2 channel rig. I was underwhelmed with its performance in my 2 channel set up and eventually sold it for a 452. I currently have a 312 in my 2 channel set up. Personally (JMHO), I think 312 sounds MUCH better than the 302 or even the 452. I know these is much debate on the whole balanced vs push/pull thing. The 312 is an EXCELLENT amp. Sell your 302 and don’t look back. :thumbsup:
Btw, not sure how the 462 sounds vs. the 302 or a used 452.

Man, I wouldn’t think the caps need replacing. The 302 is a pretty new amp. Does the 302 even have “caps” to replace?

Sorry to read about your disappointment OP. I suppose your preamp doesn't have tone controls to help in the treble region.

I don't think caps are the culprit. More than likely it's in the amps design or perhaps it's lacking in synergy with your preamp.

My preamp is a McIntosh C2500 tube preamp. Yes I have tone controls but why should I need them with this more powerful Mac amp? Buying the MC302 was a stretch, I couldn’t afford a new MC312. The balance of the MC152 was perfect in my system, so why would a more powerful amp Of the same build not sound as good? My system is almost at 50 grand and I do not want to have the treble jacked up 3 notches to make the system sound like it did before.

I believe your speakers are very efficient, so you shouldn't need alot of power to drive them. The MC152 should be up to the task and if it was the perfect balance that you liked maybe go back to it?

Also, did you try making a separate connection to the powered subs in your speakers and turning them down a little?

If I were you, I’d try adjusting the tone controls to see if you can obtain the sound you like. It’s a low cost experiment that just may solve your problem.

^^ Sorry OP. It seems the solution is at your fingertips but you don't want to use them. The amps are different. There's nothing more to say about it really.

If that is the case, then I am disappointed that their least expensive amp sounds better than their much more expensive one. I can’t go back to the MC152 as I traded it in on the MC302. I love the bass and ease to the sound with the amp butthe treble really irks me. I shouldn’t have to use tone controls as a permanent solution. Tone controls should be for the occasional disk that doesn’t sound good, not as a permanent solution.

I concur. Do your Tritons have the ability to bi-wire while separating inputs for the woofer and the rest of the speaker? If so, you can use separate output taps of the MC302 for each, based on your listening preferences.

McIntosh MC302 Puzzling observation
 

I agree with both sides, you shouldn’t have to use the tone controls. This is the exact reason I don’t want to upgrade my MC402’s...I love their sound and don’t want to risk “upgrading” only to be unhappy with the result (and extra cash spent).

On the flip side, you’re not using tone controls at this point simply out of spite isn’t giving you pleasure.

If tone controls help, I’d use them.

The Triton References are not bi wire-able or bi amp-able. They use a 54 bit DSP crossover for the powered bass units then to a conventional crossover for the 2 midranges/midbass and tweeter. I wonder if changing the cable between the preamp and amp to something slightly more lively may take care of it. The cables I am using now (Groneberg Quattro Reference, $350.00 USD) are slightly on the warm side of neutral. I hesitate because I don't want to spend a lot on another cable and a livelier cable may make the fantastic bass suffer.

I kicked up the treble 3 then 4 notches and although it was slightly better, I didn't care for the presentation. The treble control works @ 10K, I believe I need to adjust something a bit lower.

Wow!
I am impressed at all the great advice you have received. I am very sorry you have not been satisfied with your new amplifier.
This hobby of ours is fickle. I too have been burned making an “upgrade “ only to find it was either a lateral move or had an unintended consequence. Even a better amp from the same manufacturer may not be without a price.

I sense your reticence to make a change which may or may not get you for what you are looking. Not to mention the $$$. My personal dilemma was that every time I listened to my rig I couldn’t help but only hear what I was missing and not enjoying what was better. This only fed my incessant upgraditis.

I do hear your loathing to use tone controls since it really doesn’t do what you want it to do.

My personal experience was to spend time listening to the music and not the system. After a few weeks of nonaudiophile time you may rediscover what you loved about this hobby all along. It is all too easy to get jaded. It’s all part of the experience unfortunately.

Best.

Mike S.

Great point Mike S.^^^

Sorry to hear you are bummed out with your new amp stereo 5. I learned many years ago and have had to relearn that once you change one thing it usually necessitates changing another. Not sure I would change cables to try to bring back what you had before. That’s a black hole for sure and expensive.

Thank you, I agree. I am going to schedule a hearing test with an audiologist. I'm going to be 66 and never had a hearing test. I tried an online test and it said for my age, I have hearing loss. Since the test was done by Beltone, I suspect they were trying to sell me a hearing aid.

I agree changing one component can completely alter the synergy between all the others. I have the MA8000 integrated (which is an amalgamation of the C50 preamp and MC302 power amp). I absolutely love the sound of it and I don’t experience loss of treble at the high end, it just sounds rich and detailed with no harshness. Perfect in fact to my ears. My speaker cable is Atlas Asimi which is silver cable (which is generally thought of as a bit brighter in the higher frequencies). My old non McIntosh power amps really didn’t like it and it sounded too bright, but with my McIntosh MA8000 it’s just lovely, the amp controls all the high frequencies so well. Just a thought but would it be worth trying out some silver speaker cable to see if this eeks out a little more top end ? Silver cable is quite expensive though so you will need a pretty good budget. Worth a try IMO.

Since my speaker cables are 8 meters long (each), I couldn’t afford silver cables. I spent $1800.00 for my present cables in 2012.

FWIW, Costco and Sam's Club will do a complete hearing test for free and even give you a graph of the results. Be prepared. I'm 61 and had one a couple of years ago. Ouch!

Still can't abide the though of hearing aids though.

I am not sure what a hearing test will accomplish except to heighten ones fear of getting older.

Your hearing is what it is. A quick look with an otoscope will rule out excessive wax but there is no treatment for neurological or conductive hearing loss.

Just my $.02.

Mike

I am wondering if the perceived lack of sharpness in thetreble is due to my hearing and not the system. That is what I am hoping to achieve.

I sincerely hope the culprit is the amp. You'd rather think the system is performing less than expected rather than your hearing. The first you can fix, the second you're stuck with.

Don't know what the problem is but tone controls are not the solution. Suspect it has to do with the bass emphasis. Again tone controls should not be used as a compensation for this.

I received a second hand pair of Nordost Red Dawn 1.5 meter interconnects today. After I inserted them into the system, it was quite apparent that These cables are a little livelier as expected and seems to have done the trick. The treble is extended and has that little bit of sharpness that I was missing before. The bass still sounds deep and tight and I really didn't hear any loss of that.

Now my problem. Before I put the new cables in, my system was always dead quiet, not even a bit of hum. Now I am getting a hum in one channel (it was both until I rerouted the cables) only when the tube preamp is first turned on during the warming up process. Once the system is ready to play music, the hum is gone. Since these are flat cables, it's doubtful there is any shielding. What do you guys make of this, should I let it go and just enjoy or dig deeper?

That's where I was going with my post about turning down the subs a smidge that are inside the speakers. I'm curious if the highs would rear their heads again by doing this.

I tried that, I turned the woofer levels as far as I could before the bass became non existent. The Nordost Red Dawn cable I put between the preamp and amp seems to have done the trick, and I got rid of the hum as well that I was first having with the cables.

Glad you got it figured out!

Thank you. I have been listening to the system with the new cable for 4 hours and my ears aren’t bleeding yet. I don’t find these cables too bright as others have stated.