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-   -   New Revel Performa Be models announced! (https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=46708)

mtrot 09-20-2019 06:29 PM

New Revel Performa Be models announced!
 
At RMAF, Harman announced multiple new Performa Be series models, of which I am most interested in the F328Be big brother to the F228Be and the new center channel speaker.

But, my question is, with the decreasing prices at which one can purchase used Ultima 2 models, would you fork over the money for these new Be models or try to snag an Ultima 2?

For the price you would likely pay for the new F328BE, you might be able to find a nice used Salon Ultima 2. Similarly, a Voice 2 might be available for close to the price of the new Be center channel speaker. One advantage of the new Be center is that it is not so tall, so as to be able to more easily fit into common home theater shelves and cabinets.

Thoughts?

Mikado463 09-20-2019 07:42 PM

valid questions Marc, as an owner of a pair of Studio 2's I know of their virtues. So, let your wallet, ears and heart be your guide........

Kal Rubinson 09-20-2019 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikado463 (Post 980260)
valid questions Marc, as an owner of a pair of Studio 2's I know of their virtues. So, let your wallet, ears and heart be your guide........

Yes. After reviewing the f228Be (very favorably), I bought 3 Ultima Studio2s.

mtrot 09-20-2019 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson (Post 980277)
Yes. After reviewing the f228Be (very favorably), I bought 3 Ultima Studio2s.

Thanks, how well did you compare Studio to Salon, with respect to vocals and mid range performance? I ask because the Salon has that extra mid driver that the Studio does not have.

My room can probably take the Salon, but that tweeter is really high above ear level, for sitting about 10 feet away! Not sure if that is a concern.

Kal Rubinson 09-21-2019 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtrot (Post 980278)
Thanks, how well did you compare Studio to Salon, with respect to vocals and mid range performance? I ask because the Salon has that extra mid driver that the Studio does not have.

Only briefly because I had already discounted the Salons due to their height for my room: They would block the view.

Quote:

My room can probably take the Salon, but that tweeter is really high above ear level, for sitting about 10 feet away! Not sure if that is a concern.
I do not think so. I sit almost 12 feet away and a modest downward tilt would take care of that.

Mikado463 09-21-2019 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson (Post 980277)
Yes. After reviewing the f228Be (very favorably), I bought 3 Ultima Studio2s.

Kal, question, do you listen with the grills on or off ?

Kal Rubinson 09-21-2019 06:31 PM

On.

Mikado463 09-21-2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson (Post 980369)
On.

gotcha, for me it's a 'mood thing', sometimes I just 'wanna see the drivers'

I've tried to discern a difference , but to no avail ........

Kal Rubinson 09-22-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikado463 (Post 980379)
gotcha, for me it's a 'mood thing', sometimes I just 'wanna see the drivers'

For me, it's doing what I can to support the illusion that there are no speakers.

tripitz 07-22-2020 07:31 PM

Anyone have a chance to audition the new lineup? Thoughts? I own f208s and absolutely love them. Auditioned B&W 802/3 d3s this week and couldn't pull the trigger. I was going to potentially pick up a used set of Salon 2s and they sold at the dealer before I could make it there. Potentially very interested in the 328be. Hoping to audition them later this week.

mtrot 07-22-2020 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripitz (Post 1009671)
Anyone have a chance to audition the new lineup? Thoughts? I own f208s and absolutely love them. Auditioned B&W 802/3 d3s this week and couldn't pull the trigger. I was going to potentially pick up a used set of Salon 2s and they sold at the dealer before I could make it there. Potentially very interested in the 328be. Hoping to audition them later this week.

Yeah, having heard the 800D3 speakers at multiple audio shows, that tweeter just seems "tizzy" to me. Maybe it was just the small hotel rooms that were causing that, but they also sound that way to me at the Magnolia stores in which I've heard them. My sense is that they need a large volume room to sound their best. As to Focal, I keep reading recent owner reports that they just couldn't stay with them because of too much mid range intensity. I'm now finding myself leaning more towards Revel, Dynaudio, and Sonus Faber.

I've heard the F228Be at two audio shows and they sound very good to me. One concern I have with some Revel models is that recent testing has shown that they don't really achieve the low frequency extension claimed in their specs, when tested without the benefit of room enhancement. Now, that may not be much of a concern for users who will integrate them with subs. But I am looking for speakers with true bass extension and impact. My understanding is that the Salon 2 will give you that, but I'm not sure yet on the F228 or F328.

Just today, there is a review in Sound and Vision of the F226Be. The writer states, "But with these Revels sans subs, large Kodo drums sounded tight and hard-hitting, with no bloat or boom. While this was impressive at first, it soon became obvious that the bottom two octaves or so were largely missing." Hopefully, the F228Be would remedy that issue.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-system-review

I also would be interested in the experience of people with experience with the Be models.

tripitz 07-22-2020 08:38 PM

Thank you for the reply and link. Not much info yet on the 328be. I've seen the charts and concerns regarding the fullness of sound with the new models.

I actually chose the 208s over the 228be speakers last year when I auditioned them because they were less bright to me. Those are in a 2 channel system - the 328s are going to go into mixed-use system (HT/music) so I will have a sub.

I have a JL D110 sub that I meant to use to augment them and ultimately never did. In my room, the 208s have plenty of bass.

I did a 208 and 803d3 face off and the 208 was pretty close at the time (to my ears in that room). The B&Ws didn't seem to justify the 3x in cost - even though they were the better speaker. That being said, yesterday I auditioned 802 and 803 d3s along with a Legacy Focus SE. The Legacy just blew the B&Ws away with respect to the lower range. There was just so much more there that the B&Ws couldn't achieve. The flip side is that the presentation of the B&W and the upper ranges were something the Legacy couldn't match!

In any event, my local dealer has the 328s and 803 in the same room. Hoping to do an A/B this week. Will report back.

mtrot 07-22-2020 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripitz (Post 1009674)
Thank you for the reply and link. Not much info yet on the 328be. I've seen the charts and concerns regarding the fullness of sound with the new models.

I actually chose the 208s over the 228be speakers last year when I auditioned them because they were less bright to me. Those are in a 2 channel system - the 328s are going to go into mixed-use system (HT/music) so I will have a sub.

I have a JL D110 sub that I meant to use to augment them and ultimately never did. In my room, the 208s have plenty of bass.

I did a 208 and 803d3 face off and the 208 was pretty close at the time (to my ears in that room). The B&Ws didn't seem to justify the 3x in cost - even though they were the better speaker. That being said, yesterday I auditioned 802 and 803 d3s along with a Legacy Focus SE. The Legacy just blew the B&Ws away with respect to the lower range. There was just so much more there that the B&Ws couldn't achieve. The flip side is that the presentation of the B&W and the upper ranges were something the Legacy couldn't match!

In any event, my local dealer has the 328s and 803 in the same room. Hoping to do an A/B this week. Will report back.

Excellent, looking forward to your observations! My setup is a 50/50 music/movies situation, so I do think I may appreciate the extra clarity of the Be series over the F208.

DaveM 07-23-2020 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtrot (Post 1009673)
I also would be interested in the experience of people with experience with the Be models.

Hi Marc,

If you haven’t already read it, I recommend Kal’s Stereophile review of the F228Be.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...be-loudspeaker

The speaker was awarded Stereophile’s loudspeaker of the year for 2019 and overall joint product of the year.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...udspeaker-2019

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...omponents-year

I first ordered the F206 from Crutchfield last Fall. They have a great 60 return policy. IMO, there is no better way to evaluate a speaker than in your own room, using your equipment, and over a long period of time. I find quick A/B testing can be misleading especially when evaluating cables. After listening to the F206’s for about 45 days, my wife and I agreed that they just sounded too small for the room (30 ft X 35 ft with vaulted ceiling) and were lacking in bass. I decided to return them and upgrade to the F228Be. We found that these filled the room with a much more pleasant weighty sound. They took at least 200 hours to break in at low to moderate volumes. Over this time, they become more transparent. Changes to power and interconnect cables were noticeable and improved the sound quality. Soundstage improved significantly after replacing an Audioquest Earth XLR with a Synergistic Research cable.

Currently, bass slam is not where I’d like it and upper mid to high frequency noise needs to be reduced. I am hoping the Shunyata items that I have ordered will address these two issues.

I am just using for 2 channel audio and have no desire to add a subwoofer but you might want to for movies. My wife and I don’t really watch movies!

One difference between the F208 and F228Be that I read about on the AVS Forum is that the F208 suffers from compression at high volumes while this isn’t a problem for the F228Be which retain their dynamics. I wonder if this is due to the deep ceramic coating added to the F228Be drivers.

Good luck in your decision!
Dave

MacBook Pro (late 2016), Synergistic Research Atmosphere X USB cable, TEAC NT-505 with Atmosphere Alive Level 1 power cable, TEAC CG-10M, Alive Level 1 XLR with SR connectors, Parasound Halo A21+ with Foundation HC power cable, Foundation IRT bi-wire speaker cables, Revel PerformaBe F228Be
On order: Shunyata Research Denali 6000/S v2 with Sigma v2 XC power cable

tripitz 07-24-2020 06:16 PM

Following up on my post... earlier today had an opportunity to listen to the new 328be and compare against an 803d3. The Revels were hooked up to a Krell system and the 803s were hooked up to a McIntosh setup. They were on opposite sides of the room.

The dealer played a variety of music for me as well as test tones (with subs on to show what is there and what is not there). Despite what the numbers say, in that particular room, the 328s seemed to have cleaner base than the 803s.

The 328s essentially sounded like crisper and fuller versions of the f208. Really easy to listen to. They were pretty good off axis as well as I moved around the room. Overall, the sound was smooth and even. The striking difference when switching to the 803s was how much more forward they are than the Revels and how "grittier" they sounded. I could hear grittiness in the singers voice on the 803s that the 328s smoothed over. I felt that the singer was in front of the plane of the speakers with the 803s as compared to the Revels being flat.

I think in that environment, the 803s may be a bit more interesting to listen to as they are more revealing. I'm not sure interesting is good though in the long run when you are not sitting there critically listening and comparing. The Revels were just terrific.

Interestingly, I picked the f208s over the f228be last year. I thought that the f228be sounded a bit harsh (same reason I didn't buy 702s2s last year) and the 208 sounded more musical to me. The 328 did not have that harshness/brightness that I remember the 228 having.

The dealer told me that they need to be pulled from the wall a bit for them to sound good (2 ports in back) so they may not work in the room I originally intended to put them (not much opportunity to pull from the walls). I really like the 328s enough to want to buy them and try them in my home. I may end up moving the 208s into the dual/HT setup I originally envisioned and keep the 328s for the main 2 channel listening area.

Also... the shipping boxes are roadie boxes. Wow.. they are huge. It's actually a minus to me - where do I store them?!

DaveM 07-24-2020 07:21 PM

The 328 roadie boxes are pretty cool.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post59966582

I thought about waiting for the 328’s until I read they were rear ported and knew that my wife wouldn’t let them be far enough from the front wall. I am lucky to have the 228’s 2 feet off the front wall. Been moving them out about 1” at a time. :-)

mtrot 07-24-2020 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveM (Post 1009778)
The 328 roadie boxes are pretty cool.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post59966582

I thought about waiting for the 328’s until I read they were rear ported and knew that my wife wouldn’t let them be far enough from the front wall. I am lucky to have the 228’s 2 feet off the front wall. Been moving them out about 1” at a time. :-)

Ah, I didn't realize the 328 was rear ported, could be a problem for me as well. Hmm, maybe the Studio 2 or F228 would be best.

Soundmig 07-26-2020 11:32 AM

F228Be's measure a solid -3dB down at 23 Hz in my room. Then again my room is pretty small and benefits from a good bit of room boundary reinforcement. I've auditioned the 228Be and 208 side by side using JC2 pre and JC5 amp. The 208 is very good but (in comparison) has some upper mid strain that is very evident on well recorded brass and lends a slight coloration to voices and strings. The 228Be is a bit tighter and deeper in the bass as well with better pitch definition and "tactile" realness on drums, acoustic bass, etc. Overall both are great speakers, but to me the 228Be opens up to a more "realistic" sound and provides a larger deeper soundstage. I could not live with the 208 because of the brass reproduction artifact (I am a trumpet player). Then again the 228Be should be a bit better at 2x the price. I really wanted to save the money and buy 208's, but the 228Be is a special speaker with stunning performance at the price level - IMO

tripitz 07-26-2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundmig (Post 1009886)
F228Be's measure a solid -3dB down at 23 Hz in my room. Then again my room is pretty small and benefits from a good bit of room boundary reinforcement. I've auditioned the 228Be and 208 side by side using JC2 pre and JC5 amp. The 208 is very good but (in comparison) has some upper mid strain that is very evident on well recorded brass and lends a slight coloration to voices and strings. The 228Be is a bit tighter and deeper in the bass as well with better pitch definition and "tactile" realness on drums, acoustic bass, etc. Overall both are great speakers, but to me the 228Be opens up to a more "realistic" sound and provides a larger deeper soundstage. I could not live with the 208 because of the brass reproduction artifact (I am a trumpet player). Then again the 228Be should be a bit better at 2x the price. I really wanted to save the money and buy 208's, but the 228Be is a special speaker with stunning performance at the price level - IMO

This just shows how room / equipment dependent things are at the higher end (if one counts 208s as "higher end"). When I demoed the f228be and 208, the 228 was the opposite of what you described. The higher end was harsh on the 228 and the 208s were mellow. I actually picked the 208 over the 228 and it sounds terrific at home with my equipment (c2600, c462). I went back to the same dealer this week and felt that the 328s made everything seem easy, open, and relaxed.

I really want to listen to Salons. The used prices are terrific and everyone who owns them seems to love them. Given some space constraints, I may end up with that to take over for my 208s or with 226bes at some point in the room I intended the 328be for.

DaveM 07-26-2020 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripitz (Post 1009905)
This just shows how room / equipment dependent things are at the higher end (if one counts 208s as "higher end"). When I demoed the f228be and 208, the 228 was the opposite of what you described. The higher end was harsh on the 228 and the 208s were mellow. I actually picked the 208 over the 228 and it sounds terrific at home with my equipment (c2600, c462). I went back to the same dealer this week and felt that the 328s made everything seem easy, open, and relaxed.

What amplifier was used to drive the F228Be when you demo’d them? I’ve read they don’t do as well with certain class D amps. Mine were a little harsh until they had about 200 hours on them.

mtrot 07-26-2020 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundmig (Post 1009886)
F228Be's measure a solid -3dB down at 23 Hz in my room. Then again my room is pretty small and benefits from a good bit of room boundary reinforcement. I've auditioned the 228Be and 208 side by side using JC2 pre and JC5 amp. The 208 is very good but (in comparison) has some upper mid strain that is very evident on well recorded brass and lends a slight coloration to voices and strings. The 228Be is a bit tighter and deeper in the bass as well with better pitch definition and "tactile" realness on drums, acoustic bass, etc. Overall both are great speakers, but to me the 228Be opens up to a more "realistic" sound and provides a larger deeper soundstage. I could not live with the 208 because of the brass reproduction artifact (I am a trumpet player). Then again the 228Be should be a bit better at 2x the price. I really wanted to save the money and buy 208's, but the 228Be is a special speaker with stunning performance at the price level - IMO

Thanks for your measurement and subjective observations because tripitz's observations had given me some pause about the F228Be. As tripitz said, it does go to show how much differently speakers can sound in different rooms. They did sound impressive at the audio shows where I heard them.

tripitz 07-26-2020 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveM (Post 1009916)
What amplifier was used to drive the F228Be when you demo’d them? I’ve read they don’t do as well with certain class D amps. Mine were a little harsh until they had about 200 hours on them.

During the demo it was powered by a Krell Class A/B amp. I believe it was the model with ~250w. Interestingly, the 328 demo was also powered by a full Krell system. 0 issues this time around. I love the new speaker.

Soundmig 07-27-2020 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtrot (Post 1009917)
Thanks for your measurement and subjective observations because tripitz's observations had given me some pause about the F228Be. As tripitz said, it does go to show how much differently speakers can sound in different rooms. They did sound impressive at the audio shows where I heard them.

Marc, I've heard them in several different sized rooms and find them to be very room independent. I was stunned that they worked well in my small room, and my dealer says that the F228Be is the least susceptible to "room variations" of any speaker he has ever sold. As Kal pointed out in his Stereophile Review, the F228Be is very sensitive to what it is being fed by. The speaker is very revealing of changes in electronics, speaker wires and interconnects. So ... one needs to go into ownership of the F228Be understanding that it may ask you to make changes in one or all of the upstream components. The only things I've not found the need to change in my system since getting the F228Be are the speaker wires, the DAC, the digital cable, the TT, the cartridge. Everything else has been changed to gain "synergy" with these amazing speakers. But the effort has been well worth while as the F228Be is capable of both tremendous transparency and tremendous musicality and warmth. It is (to me) the best "value" on the market - capable of getting you very very close to the very best at a reasonable (by today's standards) price.

AVphile 07-29-2020 03:48 PM

If cost is a consideration, you might also take a look (or listen) at Revel Studios. I have the original version, which has an aluminum tweeter (the 2 has a beryllium tweeter). Together with the Krell (Class A) amplifier and Transparent Super cables, I am very pleased with the sound. I am intending to upgrade my speaker cables soon, as mine are 15 years old and that should be the most inexpensive way to -- hopefully -- improve the sound further.


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