Might Get Salon2's - Question on Efficiency..
 

Might Get Salon2's - Question on Efficiency..
For those of you lucky to have these - will 400 w / 8 ohm - 800 w/ 4 ohm monobloc amps be "enough" to get them to loud levels? Just worried about the 86db/spl rating. Especially since I was looking at JBL 4367s with 94db / spl efficiency...

My room is 21x19x8

thanks!

What brand amp are you planning to use? IIWM, I'd get something along the lines of at least 600; 800 or 1K watts or more @ 8 ohms.

I believe Stereophile had a review and used a ML 125W, a Krell 600 watt and Bryston 28B-SST monos pushing 1.3K watts. They eluded to the Krell and Bryston as their favorites. Those titanium drivers are stiff.

Since Revel doesn't recommend a minimum wattage (thanks much guys), another review put it this way:

"Low Points
• The Revel Salon2 is not a terribly efficient loudspeaker compared to other high end dynamic speakers in its class thus you will need a truly powerful amp. Revel would suggest a Mark Levinson power amp but the bigger offerings from Krell and Classe' also will do the trick. Digital amps from Bel Canto and NuForce represent lower priced, sleeper amps capable of making sweet audio love to the Salon2s."

Best of luck Sir,

Bob

Bob,
Thanks for the feedback. I have used and love my Parasound Halo JC1's - have had them for years (2008??) and have powered every speaker I have had.
I'm just wondering if I should buy another pair and bi-amp?

Stereophile measured the JC1's power:
"...clipped at 545 into 8 ohms"
"with 1154 available into 4 ohms"
and
"no less than 4.2 KW into 1 ohm"

"Current output of 64.7A!"


https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

Oh for crying 'out loud'.............no pun intended !!

Your JC-1's are plenty powerful enough. While my Studio II's aren't up with the Salon's my Plinius SA-102 drives them effortlessly as does my Rogue M-180's

Did u mean this?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji....rying-face.png

Best Sir,

Bob

He asked an opinion -- I gave him mine; you gave him yours.

Now he is in the same boat as he was when he woke up this morning.:scratch2:

Best Sir,

Bob

LOL - thanks guys - I just wanted to be sure that I didnt have to add "extra amp" expenses.

My wife is being more than .... amenable ... don't want to throw something else at her.

Appreciate you guys.

no he's not, he now understands that JC-1's are just fine !

And, if they aren't .. I know where to find you guys! :yes:

And you would prefer that he only received your opinion? That's not what this forum is about!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji....rying-face.png

Best Sir,

Bob

I'm going to church Sunday.:thumbsup:

yes

Your JC1's have plenty of power to drive the Salon 2's to very loud levels. I owned the Salon 2's for over two years with the Pass Labs XA-100.5's and they would make them play to ear splitting levels. So no worries.

Best,
Ken

Not worries indeed. Buy the things and get on with your climb up the hill, and make sure you get a screaming deal on them because screaming deals are available. The Salon2s remain one of the world's best speaker bargains and will mate well with the Parasound bruisers you already have.

Can't wait to hear your impressions!

You know......There's a pair for sale here on AA. Definitely worth subscribing to AA!

Pio.......Too bad you are not a Subscriber to Audio Aficionado. If you were, you would have access to the Audio Aficionado Marketplace where there is a beautiful mint pair of Salon 2's for sale at an incredible price.

Follow the link below to become an AA Subscriber and begin enjoying all this forum has to offer.

http://www.audioaficionado.org/payments.php

I purchased mine from Ken about 2 years ago. Great price, seamless transaction. Never a regret.


You can find some amazing deals on both new and used gear in the marketplace.
Come on in, the water's fine. :D

So? Did you pop for them, Pio?

You know, I've heard the Salons served by a brute of a Bryston and by a big Classe and, for the life of me, I still think that my Ayre VX-5 Twenty (175 into 8 and 350 into 4) serves the Salons to SPLs that I have yet to explore. At the loudest levels tolerable, the the control over output is amazing.

I'm dubious about the calls for more and more power for these speakers.

Still on the fence - the price is just incredible, but I have not made the move yet.... you know you will be the first person to get the pictures...

Another voice - Having powered mine with Mark Levinson and a McIntosh 452 amplifier (450 watts per channel) I decided to go tube. McIntosh 275 (75 watts) and am extremely happy. I still have the ML but the tubes are permanently connected. Rock to Jazz listener. IF you are trying to recreate the complete dynamics of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite then yes >300 watts would be recommended but I never, ever, listen that loud so spent that $ on more records :-)

The issue is how loud you want to play, how far away you are from the speakers and how they interact with your room.

You know you need to double power to get a 3 dB increase in SPL. So if you are are 90 dB with 100 watts you need 400 watts to get to 96dB (just an example, haven't done any real calculations using the Salon2 efficiency rating).

In order to play clean (no clipping of the amp) and loud with very dynamic material, you might need more watts than someone else in a smaller room who doesn't listen as loud.

It sucks to pay for more watts than you need, but you won't know if 150 watts is enough until you try it out. If you get the speakers, try to find some amps you can borrow or rent to see how much power you need.

I have Revel F208's driven by a Bryston 3B SST2 (150W). Plays as loud as I can handle.

If I bought Salon2's, I would have gone with a Bryston 4B SST2 or 4B3 (300 W).

Then there is this: https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

And this: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

My Ayre VX-5s at 175 into 8 and 350 into 4 have oodles of power to drive the Salons to crazy heights. Unless you want to listen to them from two blocks away, the Ayre is just beautiful.

The Salon2's really have my attention, and the more I read/hear about them the more I'm interested.

I unboxed my new Salon2’s this week and connected them to my ATI Signature 6007 amplifier. First, the 300 watts are more than enough, so I found what others in this thread already mentioned- these speakers are not extraordinarily hard to drive.

Beyond that I’ll hold my comments as I’m still working on placement and settings, so they’ve not yet benefited from basic necessary setup tweaks. Also, I’ve not had a system deployed for almost a year while refurbishing a foreclosed home. Thus, comparison to my B&W 800 D2’s can’t be done thoroughly. So far, I like what I’m hearing!

Are you planning on drive them Salon's with the ATI or will you end up with the 536 monos?

I will end up driving them with the 536’s, but their so damn heavy I don’t want to unbox them until I decide on the location and stands to be used. I miss them dearly though! I’ll probably accept that I have to deal with handling them multiple times so that I can enjoy them again, NOW!

I have been driving my Studio2s with a 200W McIntosh integrated. I use the 4 ohm taps and they sound magical. At high levels (loud enough to not want to go for long) the meters tend to camp in the upper third. This begs the question of whether more power would open them up a bit more.

That said, 95 percent of the time I listen at mid level to fairly loud, not shake the neighbor's windows loud. At these levels the meters are comfortably distant from the pegs, and the sound is effortless.

I think I mentioned on another thread/forum my hegel h360, 250w8 /425w4 is doing a great job tho not as full sounding as the 536 mono's I demo'd them on.

My 450 watt MC450 seems plenty adequate but if 70 dB or more of steady state dynamic range is desired, it would take more power from the amp and probably more sensitivity from the speakers. That is if one wanted to avoid the onset of dynamic compression. For vinyl playback, such a quest would be pointless but if you use a source or source material (rather unlikely) with more than 70dB of dynamic range, I can say from experience that 450 watts won't cut it. It's likely such a desire would best be met by a speaker other than the Salon2s as they start to go into compression at about 95dB SPL (IIRC) according to the charts published by the NRC. This doesn't mean they won't play louder, rather that the output of the transducer becomes less linear above that level as measured using the NRC's testing protocols. In practice I haven't found this to be a limitation. I never bump into my system's limits when listening to the material I prefer. I think, assuming you have the power, the Revels do loud better than most direct radiators as respects compression (and the NRC's testing verifies this) but if very high output is the primary requirement there may be better choices than the Salon2. High sensitivity (relatively speaking) ) is their main compromise but I think the tradeoff is well worth it to enjoy what the Revels do best. Listening above an average 90dB SPL is injurious and uncomfortable anyway.

These speakers like power but as Karl reminds us, they are not hard to drive. I spent a few minutes pecking around for the NRC's data but couldn't immediately locate the published tables. They're out there to review if you have the patience to locate them. If you listen at sane levels, none of this is an issue.

Reading this entire thread today, I noticed my prior comments were made within a week of unboxing my Salon2's and prior to deploying my Mark Levinson No. 536 amplifiers. I used my ATI 6007 for about a month, then the No. 536 for the last 4 months.

The Salon2 (and Studio2's and Voice2) speakers, now fully relaxed (broken in) and aligned, are exquisite. I've been to the local Wilson, D'Agostino dealer a few times during this period and heard the comparably retail priced (and more expensive) gear of those brands. I've not noticed anything that makes me feel like I bought the wrong gear. I like those others, but not better than my kit.

I have driven my Salon2's with both Mark Levinson No. 536's, and the ATI Signature 6007. They are 400w and 300w per channel, respectively. Either is more than sufficient to push them and allow them to breath, as some like to say.

The ATI is a well measuring, very stable, low noise power amp that drives the Revel Salon2's effortlessly and with great control. It sounds good and has all the stones one would need.

The Mark Levinson No. 536 is a world class amp which sounds elegant, lush, crisp, effortless, expansive, clean, and clear. Very musical. Needless to say, it easily drives the Salon2's to dangerous sound levels with no distortion.

I may be repeating myself but the first time I heard the salon2's was with krell575 mono's driving them in a difficult room and I left thankful that my salon1's still sounded better. My 2nd audition of the salon2's was with the 536 mono's driving them in a 'normal' room and after about 30 minutes I made an offer on them and bought them! Again, maybe because they're full range, but I don't feel the need to crank them up to 100+db levels to get into the music like previous speakers would have me doing, so my puny 425/4 ohm amp does a good job.

What you describe aptly characterizes my experience too. I find I listen longer because they are engaging and immersive at modest volumes.

Hmm Karl - where are you in Michigan ? I'm about 2 miles from paragon in Ann Arbor. Where did you get your salon2s?

I’m in Fenton, 20+ miles north of you. My Salon2’s came from a dealer out of state, all drop shipped to my home straight from Harman via freight. Paragon sold my B&W’s on consignment.

Hi Karl, What did you do with your ATI amp?

I still have it Steve, I find I'm not convicted about what direction I want to go with my system.

I'm about an hour West of Chicago and am thinking about horizontal bi amping my speakers, I think it will be easier to get the headroom that way than xover to a subwoofer. I will still use the h360 to drive the mid and treble.

Anyone having experience of having Rogue Audio Apollo tube monoblocks (250W output each) driving Revel Salon 2? How well? I will not change the amps and current have Revel F208. I will upgrade to the top rather than the next leve (such as Revel F228BE)? My listening room is 17 x 16 inches and I listen to classical music only. Ray

ray2k... Welcome to AA! :wave: