First Watt
 

I am wondering how many Pass Labs fans have ever played around with Nelson Pass's personal playground gear, First Watt.

I have been reading a ton about them and after having an e-mail exchange with Papa Pass I just had to give one a try.

With my recent playing around with a classic ARC amp it confirmed to me that top quality low powered amps give me more of what I am looking for.

Having two powered subwoofers I do not worry about if the main amp can't provide the low end....

My SS amp was way too much power for me, but a buddy of mine having large Focal speakers with large woofers was needing more power. So we are trading. A First Watt F6 with very low hours is arriving next week. I am really looking forward to playing with it.

So has any other Pass fans here tried out one of Nelson's "kitchen table" amplifiers?

I have a buddy who speaks of them in reverential tones, but haven't heard one myself.

I own a First Watt Aleph J. Make sure your speakers are efficient before purchasing the F6.

They are not, but they are 4 ohm. I also have a 45 wpc ARC which gets plenty loud enough for me. I also have two powered subs in the system. Nelson rates the F6 at 50 wpc when hooked to 4 ohm speakers, but says it easily gets over 60. I believe it should get as loud as the ARC. I just do not like to listen to really loud music any more... but purity and quality :thumbsup:.

But... You needed a preamp more!

Nahhhh.... I needed to get my amps right... I have a great pre-amp... plus I really can't afford an ARC pre-amp now :)... maybe down the road.... I also have to grab the opportunities I can when they present themselves. I have been intrigued by First Watt ever since I discovered them about a year ago.

You can't afford a preamp because you keep buying amps! I know that you are happy with the w4s pre, but you were also happy with your ampzilla and the vt50. how do you know which piece would make a bigger difference?

No money involved in this one... he is getting something that should be better for him, as well as me getting something that should be a great match for me!

I am really looking forward to playing around with the F6! The F6 is the most powerful amplifier in the First Watt lineup... not by much... it is one of the only ones that doubles it's power when used with 4 ohm speakers. I also believe it is one of the last ones that Nelson built himself before turning manufacturing over to Pass Labs.

I think you got to take a road trip down the coast Marc, with ARC pre in toe... and we can check that puppy out :)... (just kidding my friend :D)

I'm tempted. You should come up here. You are welcome anytime.

As you are Marc.... common, only about a 18 hour drive.... you can do it! :)

And both of ya need to stop in Portland during your respective road trips... :D

You bet cha :)

I heard one today. Runs extremely hot. Nice but not my cup of tea..

My feelings also...

From my understanding pure class A amps do run a little hot. I would say mine does not run any hotter than my ARC... both can get a little toasty, but not overly so.

I have to say the purity in sound is very satisfying to me.

After we were really putting it through the paces yesterday, for several hours, I could still hold my hand on the heat sinks for 5 seconds. That is the test they recommend to verify that it has enough air flow and ventilation.

Randy, you should try Pass classic XA30.5. It's discontinued but should show up in the used marker periodically.

Nice looking amp. Very similar to my amp, of course with a much fancier case.

The only thing I see in the amp that makes it of interest over my First Watt is the balanced inputs!

It's class A and should control your MC speakers better than F6. Known to have tube attributes but with SS muscles. This amp may be arguably the most successful Pass Labs amp.

First Watt
 

Trust me, F6, XA25 and XA30.5 are not the same. Pass don't do things like Goldmund/Job.

I believe this to be true, while there are similarities in the basic circuit design the implementation and resulting sound quality are significantly improved in the Pass Labs designs. First Watt amps are a great value at their price but not at the same level of performance, the differences are not merely cosmetic.

I totally assume that in many cases the designs have been advanced with further evolution in the Pass lineup. And it is not a Goldmund/Job situation. It is in fact Nelson Pass's personal playground. Where he can experiment and explore new designs that he would not be able to in the "commercial line".

As he states:
"Dick Olsher famously remarked that “The first watt is the most important watt.” This sentiment has also been expressed by others as “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?” With this in mind, I created First Watt in 1998 as a "kitchen-table" effort, exploring unusual low power amplifiers with an emphasis on sound quality.

Small amplifiers have a number of advantages over “big iron” in that very high quality can be achieved with simple Class A circuits using little or no feedback.

There is no such thing as a perfect amplifier. All audiophiles and their associated equipment have specific needs, but in each case there is such a thing as a best amplifier - the one that makes you happy.

First Watt exists because I wanted to explore a variety of amplifier designs in what I think of as neglected areas - amplifiers that might not fit into the mainstream and are probably not appropriate to my more commercial enterprise, Pass Labs.

With oddball characteristics and output power ratings of 25 watts or less, First Watt is not for most people. If you have efficient loudspeakers, listen at reasonable levels and are obsessed about subjective performance, then you probably have come to the right place.

If you want reliable audio product, then you really have come to the right place. For twelve years First Watt has had a near-zero failure rate.

First Watt amplifiers are routinely compared with tube amplifiers, although I make a point that they are not designed to mimic tubes as such. These amplifiers share some of the characteristics of the better tube products in that they have simple circuits with minimal or no feedback and emphasize performance of individual gain devices. In some ways they are better than tubes, in other ways perhaps not."

And his statement as to why he turned over the actually building of these amps to Pass Labs:
"This has always been about making amplifiers.

Dick Olsher famously remarked that “The first watt is the most important watt.” With this in mind, I created First Watt in 1998 as a "kitchen-table" effort, exploring unusual low power amplifiers with an emphasis on sound quality. I wanted to design a variety of amplifier designs in what I think of as neglected areas - amplifiers that might not fit into the mainstream and are probably not appropriate to my more mainstream business, Pass Labs.

Fourteen years later I have largely accomplished that goal, but along the way it seems that I have created a commercial enterprise that has outgrown my ability to handle alone. I tried addressing that by hiring my nephew and son to help, but they wandered off to their own careers (as offspring will do), leaving me with all the work.

Don't get me wrong, I like work - It's good for you. Building product is fun and keeps me grounded, but production demands are not leaving me with enough time to pursue the vast array of yet-to-be-designed amplifiers. So I am doing the logical thing, which is to hand the business end of First Watt over to Pass Labs, bringing my three business partners to the table as well. My relationships with these people stretch back to 1972 with ESS, through the Threshold years and for the 25 years of Pass Labs, and I'm certain they can do the job flawlessly.

Starting in April, Pass Labs will be building First Watt amplifiers and will also take responsibility for marketing and distribution. Support and service policies will remain the same.

I will continue at what I do best, the fun part."

And about heat:
"Q: Why do they run hot?

A: They are Class A amplifiers. They are very linear, but they run hot. Can I make them sound good without Class A? No. Because they run hot, it is important that they get good ventilation. Do not place them in a closed cabinet or on top of another hot amplifier."

Other info:
"Q: Do you really build them yourself?

A: Yes, until this last year, when my son Colin and nephew Sean began helping with assembly.

Q: Why do they all look the same?

A: Years ago I bought a lot of chassis parts in order to get volume pricing, and they are not used up yet. You can look forward to seeing this chassis for quite a while.

Q: What is the warranty?

A: 3 years parts and labor. We have not experienced a warranty case yet, but I imagine the service is good...

Q: Is there really a 0 percent failure rate on these amps?

A: Pretty much. One customer reported a case of bad solder connection, but the amplifier was apparently still running when it was discovered. He soldered it himself. Other than that, just the odd case of shipping damage."

He has at times expressed that designs he comes up with in First Watt many times gets passed on to Pass Labs.

Nelson also told me with life and such his son and nephew moved on to other things, so he could not personally keep up with the hand building. This is why he moved the assembly work to Pass Labs. Mine was built just before the move to Pass Labs, so I am fairly certain it was hand built by Nelson.

Any way a lot of good info.

So you totally understand, I am not saying that First Watt is exactly the same as Pass Labs. And certainly the Goldmund/Job analogy does not apply because these are designed and until recently hand built by the man himself. They are very fine amplifiers that sound as pure and accurate as any amplifiers in their price level if you fit the bill of someone looking for purity and not huge amounts of power.

I will put forth one proposition however, by an amp being sold and marketed within the Pass Labs moniker does impose certain restrictions. As Nelson himself stated, "First Watt exists because I wanted to explore a variety of amplifier designs in what I think of as neglected areas - amplifiers that might not fit into the mainstream and are probably not appropriate to my more commercial enterprise, Pass Labs." So with First Watt he can experiment and try things. When he comes up with a worthy design and tests to be something special, he creates a new model. It could be argued that First Watt may in fact be the better of the two. I am not saying it is, but do not assume just because it has the Pass Labs label makes it the superior of the two. After all Nelson backs both amplifiers the same and the First Watt actually has the better track record. He designs both but states, very clearly, that one is more "personal" to him. Also, one other consideration... if you have an issue with Pass Labs you call your dealer or Pass Labs. If you have an issue with First Watt, even now that Pass Labs is assembling them, you call Nelson. He personally stands behind them, and so far has had ZERO warranty claims.

I prefer Sidney Cordnerman's opinion of Class A amplifiers. "The efficiency of Class A is really poor. They're generating a fantastic amount of heat when they're not amplifying a signal. I saw no advantage in considering Class A. If you properly bias Class B or Class AB, you don't have crossover distortion, so you can do a good job, and have high efficiency at the same time."

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...lifier-classes

I assume there are very good designs in all of the various flavors out there :). This is just Nelson Pass's take... All I can say is the amplifier I am listening to right now is one of the finest, purist sounding amplifiers I have ever heard. It works beautifully in my system, in my room, for my tastes. After all, that is all that really matters anyway :D...

First Watt
 

Randy, I thought I read somewhere where you wrote you think F6 is virtually the same as XA25 and again commented earlier in the thread that XA30.5 is similar to F6 but with just a pretty chassis.
To be honest I don't think speakers like your MC are the ones that Nelson Pass had in mind when he designed F6 and that's the reason I recommended XA30.5.

There are similarities and when I read about the XA25 it seemed strikingly similar to the F6. Nelson told me it is not... I take him at his word... even though he may be required to say that :dunno:...

And I agree that he did not have my speakers in mind with the design, although his second and third main criteria for those who may be interested do apply.

All I know is it sounds really good, so much so that I decided it is my main amp and the ARC is my change of pace amp. I have played it exclusively other than when Dan and Bill came over and we spent several hours comparing the two, ever since the amplifier was delivered earlier in the week.

I also agree with your point about the XA30.5. If one becomes available to me and I can afford it at the time I would probably jump on it, especially because of the balanced inputs and a tad more power.

In this statement you have distilled down to the very core all of our thoughts. I simply don't have the luxury of time to demo components; I rely on guidance from others. I have been woefully misdirected by an AD I used to trust and one US brand, neither of which will ever see one cent of mine again.

My PASS integrated's performance plus their customer-focused culture has made me one very happy owner.

If you're looking for Ayre bashing, save your breath, mate.

I'm simply agreeing with RM's insightful comment and complimenting PASS for all the right reasons. Mate.

I've had the First Watt J2, M2, and Pass Labs X150.5 and XA30.5 in the same system to see which matched with my speakers and sonic preferences. Although the FWs and X150.5 are at similar price points, sonically, the FWs tended towards greater transparency and speed. However, they did not have the bass heft, extension, or grunt of either of the Pass Labs models. I've found that listening to them was much more enlightening than any of the professional reviews available at the time, which tended to be paired with highly exotic and idiosyncratic speakers I was not familiar with. Reno Hi-Fi has a very good at-home trial program with very little risk and cost that allowed me to do the comparisons.

If you like the F6, I would think the XA30.5 would also be interesting, good luck!

Thought this new Positive Feedback review of the First Watt F7 would be of interest here.

Here is TAS review of the F7:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...wer-amplifier/

The more I listen to the First Watt the more I love my F6. As the highest powered First Watt to date, it drives my "hard to drive" speakers to levels beyond where I would go... but the sound... oh the sound... at this point I would choose a First Watt over a Pass Labs.

Randy - Glad that you're so impressed with your F6, but your concluding statement begs the question as to whether you've actually heard a Pass Labs amp in your system? :scratch2:

No I have not... of course... unfortunately a very hard thing to do... no local dealers, arranging to a "purchase" just to listen, and then being out the shipping $ if you choose against it... and of course a dealer has to make money... so a 8-10 year old Pass would cost hundreds more than my one year old First Watt... and what reason would I have to think that the commercial line... costing a lot of extra $$$ would do anything more than the line which the designer considers more "personal" to him.... see my dilemma?

The synergy between the Wyred STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, and the First Watt is extremely good. Almost like they were made for each other!

I love this hobby of ours. It seems like we are always pursuing the "holy grail " of musicality. We all listen differently as we are all different. Lately I just sit back and just listen. I know I could get an incremental increase in reality if I wanted to spend ridiculous amounts of money. Yet, I concur with Randy. It seems what I've put together is synergistic with one another and gets me to where I'm listening,enjoying and happy with my musical version of nirvana. As I believe that is the point where you are Randy. Enjoy! My 2 cents.

Thanks Paul, and I think you are correct.... enjoying the music!

When you haven't driven a GTR, it's easier to proclaim Z as Nissan's best sports car.

Sure it is. But when is enough reality enough. Constant searching can get old. Isn't this hobby of ours enjoying the music? I'm sure an exotic sports car is out there that will leave the GTR in the dust. What I'm trying to say is we all have a level of satisfaction that may not be exactly what others think it should be. Don't worry. Be happy [emoji3]

Sorry, but the analogy does not apply. We are not talking about two models comparison.

What we are talking about is two products designed by an engineer, one for a commercial line to sell in more mass quantities, one in a limited production run. The limited run item is also designed by and hand built by the designer himself (until very recently).

Therefore assuming the commercial high profile line is better may not be accurate. That is all that is being said.

You want to send me a Pass Labs version I will gladly listen to it. At this point I am extremely happy with the designers personal line. That is all that we are saying. Certainly not making a blanket statement that it is better as some people have made about the commercial product.