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The Vintage Altec Codex

Dear current and prospective Altec speaker owners:

In purchasing a pair of vintage Altec Flamencos (848A) I have been rewarded by so much great sound reproduction, and excellent integration with Shindo gear and low-watt tube applications due to their ~100 dB sensitivity and 16 ohm load. During the past 18 months that I've owned these speakers I've also become accustomed to their limitations and trade-offs, and have committed a great deal of time, effort, and money in upgrading them in numerous ways that stay true to the original nature of the design...what I would call OEM+. And trust me there is a lot to talk about here. Also, I've come across so much blatantly wrong information and dogma out there that I feel I needed to relay some of what I've learned. So, here we are. Please feel free to share your experiences and knowledge and perhaps we can all gain something from the discourse. Thanks!

-Josh

Linked to previous thead here: http://www.audioaficionado.org/723211-post25.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by junker (Post 723211)

Yeah definitely consider this... Tables are a game changer! I'm going to kick-off another thread on vintage Altec speakers where we can all have a dialogue regarding our vintage Altecs. I've considered them my main hobby project for about 18 months and have another $2-3k into them for what I would consider OEM+ upgrades and have learned a tremendous amount that I can share (some of the secrets!). At the last Pitch Perfect event I went to I was surprised at how many Shindo owners have gone through great lengths to use these as starter speakers for moving into the Shindo, vintage, SET direction. And yet there is so much dogma out there that reads from some limited Art Dudley comments - even he alluded to L-R balance issues and perhaps building crossovers. I'm going to go on the record for saying that the magic of these speakers is inherently due to the drivers. It is absolutely not the crossovers, the cabinet materials, the insulation, or the wire type. These are not Shindo. Historically, Altec primarily made drivers for both professional and custom installations and sold the drivers and crossovers as individual components. Then, at some point (mid-60's) they seemed to expand into the residential market. Both the crossovers and cabinets have numerous cost-cutting measures and, in fact, the cabinets were outsourced. Also, please remember the crossovers are in a welded closed aluminum can and are potted in tar. I've bought an extra set and extricated the components to confirm the plans I've used are correct. Trust me you do not want to do this... Electrolytic caps do dry out, and values do drift. L-Pads will never be as good as a fixed R value. And for god's sake there is nothing ideal about having both ferrite cored inductors sitting next to each other at the bottom of that infernal can - that is a big no-no as inductors crosstalk due their magnetic B fields coupling. And if you want to ever replace the captive 50 year old tinned 20 gauge Belden wire you effectively need to replace the crossover. And if you replace the crossover you effectively should either replace the backs (MDF!), or leave the stock crossover as a vestigial appendage occupying valuable cabinet volume that was used to calculate the port size. No, there is a cascade that you start to get into when you go down this path but there are clear and dramatic improvements along the way to be sure. There is a lot of potential left on the table in the stock enclosures.

Definitely be sure to read over this ALTEC loudspeaker design document from 1968 just so you can understand how these very special drivers are intended to be used by the manufacturer. This also includes the enclosure schematics for the A7, Valencia, and Flamenco. =)

-Josh

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/vint...sures_1968.pdf

Altec Price List (Sept. 1967)

Original Flamenco Magazine Advertisement

Altec 806A (HF) & 416A (LF) Driver Specifications

Reconditioning Cabinet Finish

The first thing I will start with is let's talk about cleaning up those nasty 50 year old cabinets... :yes:

I am simply discussing what I did off the bat with my new speakers to clean them up and restore much of the beauty of the original finish but I need to add a disclaimer here... if you are uncomfortable with any of this please do not attempt. I'd also recommend testing any of these steps on a well-hidden location so if you are not happy with the results they are not visually exposed. You are warned that any of these recommendations are ultimately at your own risk, and I accept absolutely no responsibility for damage you may cause.

With that out of the way... I first recommend removing a half of century of grime, dirt, and wax build-up using Murphy's Oil Soap with a soft washcloth or microfiber. This stuff is very concentrated so go with the dilution directions (I made mine a little more concentrated) in a bowl with warm water. Squeeze out any excess and clean the exterior being sure to squeeze out the dirty water often and being sure to not have the cloth too sopping wet. Be warned the dirt that you clean off may shock you! Eww, disgusting!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

After you let the cleaning step dry thoroughly I recommend using Howard's Restore-A-Finish in the color closest to your existing finish. It does not stain the wood and the exact color is not critical - it contains a bit of dye to color match any scratches, dings, or gouges you may have. Just follow-the instructions on the can in a well ventilated area. If your finish is close to mint - other than perhaps a few water spots or sun bleaching (lucky you!) - then go ahead and use a gentle cloth. For the rest of us with 50 years of micro damage then apply with 0000 steel wool - the finest, gentlest grade. Start off with light pressure going with the grain, and continue using common sense increasing the number of applications and pressure as you deem appropriate. I found that I could use more pressure than I originally thought, and probably ended up doing it 3-4 times. Prepare to be amazed! There's a reason this is the dirty little secret that many antique furniture dealers use to restore and preserve their antiques.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AV8y2WqiL.jpg

Lastly, I used Howard's Feed-N-Wax beeswax and orange oil polish and conditioner to protect the wood.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514XoRfPP3L.jpg

Good job! I bet you didn't realize how nice the cabinets could look, huh?! No more cup and pottery rings or minor sun fading. What happened to all of those minor scratches and nicks?! Nice! :thumbsup:

Too funny Josh. I already bought those two Howard's products. I even called them on the phone before purchasing. They sent me a color brochure with finish photos, which I used to chose my restor-a-finish color. I think mine is medium WALNUT, but I will have to look. I have to confess, I have yet to use it on the Altec's. I only used it on another piece of furniture, with nice results. When I first got my Altec's, I used a LIQUID GOLD Product, which seemed to work OK. I figure because of the strong smell of the Restor-a-Finish, I may want to get the speakers out of the room. I hear you on the Turntable. They are such a revealing speaker, I'm sure any changes downstream are easily heard.

Guys,
Great idea for a dedicated thread.
As I have said in a number of previous posts, my 846A's, which I have run with Shindo for several years, took a leap upwards in listenability when I installed the Jabo Labs/Werner Jagusch crossovers. Better cohesiveness, any harshness/relentlessness gone, etc.
Anyone else have experience with these crossovers?

My grandfather owned that exact Altec 711A receiver you have shown. It was used in the system he had at my grandparents' summer cottage along with a pair of Rectilinear Highboys and the AR turntable.

I see it listed as a "100 watt receiver" (which meant 50 wpc back in those days) but in reality I think 30 - 35 wpc WRMS is truer.

Thanks for the memories and good luck with the restoration of your Flamencos and be sure to post some pictures when finished. :thumbsup:

Incidentally, I recently acquired a number of pieces of Altec literature from the late '60s to mid '70s. I'll have to post them when I get a chance.

By way of interest, I own a pair of Heathkit AS 21 speakers which utilize the same compliment as the Altec Malibu: Dual 414A 12" woofers, 806A HF driver w/811B horn.

Like the Flamenco, they're incredibly sensitive.

I had been using the AS 21s in my vintage system but have been substituted for a pair of Altec 14s which I found more to my liking. I am currently offering the Heathkits.

Hey Jay!

Could you tell us a bit more about the crossovers? Do they go inside the cabinet or are they external, and how do you wire into them? I have to assume you clip the internal leads coming from the screw tab on the input side, and then run new wire from the crossover to each driver? And you just leave the stock N-800-F in-place in the cabinet?

This is probably one of the only commercial crossovers I've heard of for these speakers. I think I saw a picture before...will look up on eBay but if I remember correctly they use transformers (auto former?) and caps, so they are a bit different than the stock schematic I think. I bet they are awesome! The stock crossovers are so terribly limited in a number of ways, most notably IMO, they seem to get congested and bark at modestly high volumes, and the sound stage seems to congeal and collapse. At lower volumes they can still sound remarkably good though haha.

Thanks for the info!

Josh

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBass (Post 723301)