800 or 802 D3 sub required?
 

I currently have 802N with Paradigm Sub 2. Wondering if anyone has experience with either the 800 or 802 D3 with a great sub and if it’s needed. I listen mostly to music approximately 80% of the time.

I don’t know the D3, but my signature 800s needed a sub (I ended up with two fathoms).

I was disappointed to need subs.

My friend has the d2 800s and he needed a single fathom as well.

If we are talking about stereo or multichannel music, I rarely ever use the subs with the 802D3s unless there is a sub signal on the recording.

I own 802D3. And i own a DB2D.
I can't imagine all that WOW-Sound without the Sub. It helps everywhere. It helps to make and feel a room. It does so much deep down there.

Yes, even with the 802 and 800D3 the big grin stays always in your face and your brain. You need it. A DB1D or DB2D. Nothing below.

I use a pair of REL subs with my set up. I was put -off when someone suggested adding a pair after having paid a princely sum for speakers. Until I had my room voiced by a professional who showed me how to read the room response using pink noise and an iPad based spectrum analyzer / microphone. It showed that when we got the response nice and flat from 200Hz upward, there was a bass dip between 80 and 200Hz. If we got that flat, the higher frequencies were off. No amount of speaker movement, wall treatments or listening chair variations made it better. The problem was a characteristic of my room dimensions. Enter the subs. By varying the volume and the cut, I've been able to get a very satisfactory measured response which has translated into a fantastic presentation of the sound.

Cincy

I never heard the need for a sub with my 802 D3. I listen to music only, no movies.

Well, in terms of frequency response, it seems as if you really don't need a subwoofer as it goes very deep. The diagram already looks really great. But... The sub brings you so much more.
It brings a lot more relaxation. It brings a lot more excitement. In music, too.
You should not only assume that you only need a sub if you want to experience crashing explosions in movies. Nope.
You actually have to try it out and experience it for yourself and please don't just listen to the usual slightly plucked guitar sounds, which are totally boring anyway.
Kool & The Gang, the live CD. Just wow! Madonna's live CDs. Wow! Air. Sia. Misty Boyce. Snarky Puppy! Even normal Netflix series gain more information.

If the sub here had suddenly disappeared, the system would be a completely different one.

I bought the DB2D before the 802D3 and... Somehow... Of course, the 802D3s are awesome. No question about it. But what impresses me most is the Sub. Together with the 802D3.
Without Sub: A great cat. With Sub: An incredibly good tiger. Everywhere.

Kal,
I listen mostly to 2 channel music via CD or Tidal.

Running low end frequency sweeps 10 hz up to around 70hz and using a good sound meter will clue you into what you may or may not be missing. For me, w/o a sub I had a big bass bump around 45hz in my room. With the sub I’m now flat with a very small bump at 20hz. You can find frequency sweep tones on the internet for free download.

You can easily EQ the bass in the main speakers to eliminate room interaction and get the 802D3s flat to 20Hz. I use the subs only for 5.1 tracks or out of curiosity.

Hi Kal -sorry if it’s a silly question, but how do you go about doing this?

DiracLive. (Or REW + JRiver)

Hi I'm new in the forum I have a B&W setup with 802 D3 HTM1D3 and 2 Velodyne DD12+ subwoofers. I would like to know what crossover do you choose when listening 802D3 for 2 channels music ?

Can I ask you which crossover wetting sound the best with your 802 D3 ?

You can go a few ways. First find a good sub setup instructions on the internet. Placement, room acoustics play a big role on dips and highs in bass. Currently I have my 802N set to cut off at 50hz. I would guess you could go much lower with your 802D3’s. For me, I couldn’t move my sub around, only one place for it. I found some good bass sweeps and used a really good sound meter to measure the dB’s through all the lower bass ranges.

Kal also suggested another to achieve a flat response. Look at his earlier posts in this thread.

Thank you very much for your answer. My sub have perfect placement in the room and run flat from 20 Hz to 200 Hz. I don't know if subs should have crossover set at 80 Hz for a perfect overlap or if it's better, with such good speakers as 802 D3, to let them play say and set the crossover to 50 Hz (I know crossover is not a brick wall...)
When I try say 60 Hz bass is stronger but I hear some dynamic loss. Perhaps time alignement problem or the woofers of my sub can't match the velocity of the 802 D3 woofers ?
The 802 D3 are powered by classe CT M600

These are great questions JoSoSa. I have a smaller but similar setup also and have experimented too much with the Velodyne settings. I run at 45 Hz. What is your slope set to?

Hi robd2, I ended with JL audio recommandations :
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer

80 Hz crossover 24dB slope, most important is Group Delay if you have a processor or Impulse timing

The idea is to declare the sub(s) 12 feet further the speakers (L, C, R but also LS RS). 12 feet works ideally with Velodyne subs and JL audio subs. So if the mains are 7 feet away the sub must be set at 19 feet of distance.

I have 802 D3, 2 channel only. I mainly listen to jazz and rock and roll. I generally stream hi-def from tidal, CDs and listen to high-def files from HD Tracks using J River.

I've never used tone controls, and I've never used a sub.

Everybody likes what they like, the only way to know if you like a sub or not is probably to try one out and see for yourself. Maybe your dealer has a decent sub you can take home and give it a try before committing to making a purchase.

If you're anywhere near Connecticut, I have a CM 12 sub that I used to use in a 5 Channel set up, you're more than welcome to borrow it and give it a try. It probably wouldn't be a perfect match to the 802 D3, but it would at least give you a flavor of what a sub would be like.

When I had the 802D2's I didn't find the bass output sufficient, which resulted in purchasing a JL Audio F110. A friend who was previously a 802D2 owner and now has the 802D3's, finds the bass output is much better than the older Series 2.

802D3s-subwoofer is a luxury in most rooms.

802D3 is the definition of luxury. Why not have full luxury with an additional Sub?

The big grin must be cut out of my face when running my 802D3 with the DB2D. There's really more information included. OK, you don't need it when listening to guitar players singing folk-things...

I've added a DB1D to my 802 D3s and I'm quite happy with it. It's the 'cherry on the pie'...

music = no sub!!!!

mowie = 5.1 or more yes sub: BUT mowie is not music. A good 2 channel system can give you a huge pleasure!



KaliKid2013 = I agree!

velodyne, rel, JL , SVS, Paradigm, B&W - nice sub for mowie.


for Music? Wilson Benesch Torus !!! the only one. a Magico S5 with 2 Torus is a killer!