Upgrading from Canterbury SE to GR
 

Inspired by tweet's Canterbury GR thread at just the right time, I placed my GR order a few weeks ago, and they arrived yesterday. I'm a longtime Tannoy owner, having run the Canterbury SE for the past 5 years, Kensington SE 3 years before that, and Dimension TD10 another 2 years.

I'd been worried about reports that some have even preferred the old SE over the new GR model, or preferred the SE with ST100/200 supertweeters (I have an ST100b). Furthermore, I'd recently auditioned Focal Sopra 3's, and boy did those sound different from my Canterbury SE -- the Sopra 3's are very lively sounding by comparison, with much more emphasis on detail. Yet I admit I found myself enjoying these Focal speakers -- a first for me with Focal products, as I wasn't blown away by the bigger Utopias, or even the Utopia headphones (I vastly prefer Stax SR-009). The Sopras definitely rendered a very "pleasing" lifelike sound, though perhaps with some potential for the high-tech tweeter to induce fatigue. The bass was punchy and had good weight; very musically satisfying, though with a touch of tubbiness and lacking a bit of extension -- for which the VAC amplification might have been partially to blame.

I mostly heard the Sopras with "audiophile" tunes, of which I'm not a fan. I love that my Canterbury SE serve all genres of music brilliantly. They're perfectly coherent (like single-driver headphones) and endlessly musical; with Tannoy you let the music wash over you, rather than getting pummeled by details. But my Sopra 3 experience was good enough overall that it definitely got me thinking about whether the correct upgrade path was to stick with Tannoys, or to go in a different direction.

For these reasons, I was a bit nervous waiting for the GR to arrive -- unsure whether I'd made a mistake. I'm happy to report that purchasing the GR's was a GREAT choice! Right out of the box, these sound awesome. Much better than my well run-in SE -- with or without ST100b. They're voiced slightly different, but all for the better: more neutral, open open, and dynamic. Treble response is obviously improved. Better 3D imaging. Obviously punchier, a much more lively sound --but without the "in your face" tweeter effect! Notes are both weightier and more clearly defined. But they still retain that neural, rich, organic midrange and tone that the Canterbury SE was famous for. The GR sounds like a perfect fusion of old school Canterbury SE musicality, and modern technicality. And Tannoy definitely raised the level of cosmetics with the GR -- very classy, down to every detail. The worst offender was that horrible large & paper-thin crossover adjustment plate. No, strike that: the worst offender was the pantyhose grill cloth. Both issues are perfectly addressed in the GR.

The SE were rather "wooly" sounding out of the box; it took time and careful gear matching to open them up. The GR's dropped right into my system sounding damn near perfect right from hour 1. I kept listening to these GR's all night, till 3 or 4 AM. It was amazing! I kept wanting more and more, and can't wait to see how they develop with more hours...but I'm already ecstatically happy as-is! It's going to be a good life with these speakers. I loved my SE's; they served me extemely well, produced countless great times (alone, or with other listeners), and their walnut darkened beautifully over the years -- but what an upgrade to the GR! These speakers are extreme music makers. If you're shopping in the $20K - $40K range, I implore you to find a way to get your ears on the Canterbury GR.

New GR's (Audioquest Niagara 7000 is also new):
http://i.imgur.com/99MLY43.jpg

Night Listening:
http://i.imgur.com/R0QxG28.jpg

The SE's on their way out yesterday!!
http://i.imgur.com/hGzDD1j.jpg

Mike,

Welcome to the Canterbury GR club! :banana:

I definitely know what you mean about wanting more and more. Tannoy should add a disclaimer to the Canterbury GR claim:

Capable of high-volume listening without fatigue...

It's almost impossible to turn the system off at night. I end up listening way too late and then feel miserable at work the next day. :D

Thanks for the excellent write-up and the photos. They look amazing with your setup and will get better by the day. I could tell a big difference by the end of the second week. They are remarkable brand new and change to Wow.

Enjoy your first Saturday night with new Canterbury GR's. You can visit all of your favorite venues and never leave the couch! :thumbsup:

Upgrading from Canterbury SE to GR
 

Congrats. Beautiful speakers. I would love to hear a pair someday.

Wow! Congratulations, very glad they are working well for you... I respect your ears and judgment at the highest level!

Thanks guys. Another night of fine listening in the books. I'm stoked for my other inbound upgrades this next week: CMS Maxxum rack, Innovation Master TT, Rogue Apollo "Dark" monoblocks, 2nd pair of AQ Kilimanjaro speaker cables! Glad I got the speakers first, to better isolate the differences vs. SE.

And I'm still mulling over: a Graham III or Elite, the new Tannoy Supertweeters, and some longer XLR cables for the amps. For next year, I'm really curious about the ARC Ref 6 and Ref 3 -- my buddy's been raving about the 6 in his Tannoy/Rogue system. And to be honest I do get a little bit of hiss noise floor with the Rogue Hera pre -- that's what happens when you pair 96dB Watt speakers with 275 Watts/ch tube amps and 23 dB+ of tube preamp gain. The Ref 6 should clean that up nicely.

Also, maybe I need to slow down a bit :nono:

The Canterbury SE are a wonderful speaker, and whomever buys mine will be getting a great deal. They were the cornerstone of my rig for 5 years. Lots of wonderful "a-ha" moments in that time, when rolling in just the right tube or cable -- and subsequently basking in the blissful beauty of the resultant sound. They're perhaps a bit "sweeter" sounding than the GR, though time & break-in will see how that sorts out. But I'm really really excited about the GR, so please excuse a bit of my gushing :thumbsup:

Also, it's wonderful too see that the Tannoy factory is still building awesome speakers. From what little information trickles out, it seems there's been a lot of upheaval and uncertainty in the past year at Tannoy under new ownership. For a while I wasn't sure Tannoy would be filling orders, or continuing in any recognizable incarnation.

They've even stepped up activity on the Tannoy Facebook page! Which is great -- they'd long been terrible about marketing their upper tier speakers in North America. They don't "play the game" by upgrading their line every 1-2 years (personally I much prefer the 5-7 year cycle), but with such high quality products they could be doing a lot better, and I greatly hope to see them succeed.

Great point! It seemed that doom was imminent but they have avoided disaster so far,
hope they keep it up! My SE's are still very satisfactory to me :)

Mike. I'm so happy for you !

My original Canterbury 15's (with 100b Super tweeters) are still awesome- in fact, I couldn't hear much difference between my old Canterbury's & the SE (after I had them rewired & new WBT binding posts)- but the GR was waaaaayyyyy better!!!

Very green with envy- GR's will be my next speaker up-grade- funds permitting.

Congratulations Mike. I enjoy modern design but Tannoy seems timeless.

What size is your room?

Would love to hear these speakers.

Thanks guys!! And girls if you're out there, but probably not, lol...

It's an odd, old one-off loft apartment. There are no other residential neighbors on this block, and everyone else goes home at night, so I have no fear of noise complaints (catch me cranking my system from midnight to 4:00 AM). It's on the 2nd floor, but in a 100 year-old commercial building with very solid construction -- brick & plaster walls, stout and well-braced wood floor -- so it's got none of the acoustic nasties of a modern suspended wood-floor flimsy shoebox (I've been there and it sucks). Great physical security too! An old factory door, consisting of 2.5" thick hardwood clad in steel plate (!!) guards the only entrance from ground level. I've been here 8 years, a confirmed bachelor for life, so home ownership doesn't appeal to me.

The main room is roughly a 30'x20' overall dimension, with 10' ceilings, but my speakers "fire" down the long way of a 14'x21' section of it, with partial openings on both sides. I find the Canterbury to be an ideal size for this section; they fill the space beautifully without any hint of overwhelming in bass. Though by far, I'm mostly concerned with my sweet-spot, positioned about 9' from each speaker (it sounds awesome here, especially after the GR upgrade). By contrast, my old Kensington SE had a tough time delivering a satisfying low-end in this same space.

As far as other references, I have my computer/digital setup consisting of: Stax SR-009 electrostatic headphones, Head-amp Blue Hawaii SE amplifier, and Schiit Yggdrasil DAC fed by Audiophilleo 2 w/ PurePower (the USB input of the Yggy sucks). It's about as good as headphones get, and I've heard (or owned) nearly all of the legends. It's extremely neutral and detailed; a great reference to know so that you can instantly recognize what parts of a given speaker system are sounding out of whack. That said, it can't begin to measure up to the vividness, lifelike dynamics, impact, and soundstage of my Tannoy setup.

Here's the Blue Hawaii amp (fitted with NOS EL34, as it should be for best sound). Amazing amp, inside and out (and sonically):
http://i.imgur.com/LIHIkXy.jpg

A bit off topic, but I'm sure you guys know the struggle of an addict -- when your system takes a significant leap forward in performance, that's when you often get your worst cases of upgradeitis! I'm still waiting on my amp, rack and TT upgrades to arrive, and already I'm contemplating some AQ WEL Signature interconnects to upgrade my AQ Fire & Wild Blue Yonder...

Upgraded my rack and turntable a little bit. And amps upgraded too, but only a very little bit. Need a silver faceplate on my little phono stage for some continuity. Would like a silver ARC Ref 3 and Ref 6 in there eventually. The matte finish on the CMS Maxxum rack is VERY nice. A Glossy finish just won't do with the Canterbury's raw/oiled walnut. Now, at age 38, can I please finally be done with audio upgrades for life? (after the ARCs of course...and some cables...)

http://i.imgur.com/8mB8BeW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0wpTXlL.jpg

Need to finish getting stuff hooked up, boxes cleared, and need get my favored Graham/Koetsu setup mounted on the table.

Mike,
Wow, that's awesome! Congratulations on the new rack, amps and turntable. That's was a massive haul. It looks fabulous and I can only imagine how good it must sound. Looks like another all-nighter at your place. I will be looking forward to your impressions. Enjoy! :thumbsup:

Thanks Terry! It sounded FABULOUS indeed last night; tonight I take off the loaner Shelter Harmony and mount my old Koetsu Jade just to get a better feel for how things progressed from this batch of upgrades. The CMS rack is a true marvel. Let's be real, these racks are too damn expensive. But now that the pain of payment has subsided, I LOVE having one. Here's a slightly better pic of the updated system. So glad I went with matte black; it looks awesome and glossy would look awful in my system lol:

http://i.imgur.com/KzcLjwf.jpg

Mike,
You have a gorgeous setup! I really like the new matte black MS Maxxum rack. It looks fantastic and I'm sure it has increased the enjoyment of your music. The new Innovation Master turntable and Rogue Apollo monoblocks look pretty sweet as well. Dang, that's a nice rig. Can you tell a lot of difference in the amps?

I know the Canterbury GR sounds amazing. I was out of town last weekend and have been glued to the couch playing one album after another since we got home. I might as well bolt them to the floor. They are here to stay.

Thanks again, Terry!
Every day I'm glad I went for the GR; just wish I'd done it sooner. From what I can gather so far - the Apollo "Dark" amps actually sound very similar to the prior Apollos, which to be fair sounded excellent. We'll see if the sound develops further as they break in. I do love how they look in black!

The rack seems to be helping a good deal with footfalls and maintaining clarity in higher volume listening (of which I'm a big fan). This thing is a BEAST. It always made me nervous to see those big 15" woofers pumping heavily from seismic energy feeding into the turntable, and this is now notably diminished thanks to the CMS rack. Also I can safely LEAN on this rack while making adjustments; the prior stacked tripod rack was a disaster waiting to happen!

With this last round of upgrades, the overall sound has tightened up a degree further. This was a good thing, except that now I was missing some bass. So I switched from ports half open to ports fully open on the Canterbury GR. Voila! Perfect balance again, and yet with tighter, cleaner bass than I had before.

Oh, also I snagged an ARC Ref 6 preamp, in black. That will arrive Thursday, along with my 2nd set of silver AQ Kilimanjaro cables for a double biwire. This is gonna be awesome! BUT I had to promise myself not to buy anything else for a while (totally gonna happen).

Wow! Congratulations, thanks for the update!

Very nice indeed!

Hello Mulveling.
Nice setup and your speakers Canterbury GR are also on my shopping list with Audio Note AN-E . Plan to buy on of theses in next month. Audio Note AN-E Spe HE I have listened for on hour in my room and liked. I never hear Canterbury and it is not possible, otherwise I find some dealer abroad and take plane trip to audition. It seems strange to want speaker that never heard, but specs, look on photos and reviews, foorum posts (also hours)pull me to Canterbury also. Have you ever heard Audio Note AN-E? Soundstage of Audio Note is huge and feel of present is very good, bass is deep. How about Canterbury? My Power amp is EAR 861 (2x32 w tube). Thank you advance.*Rait

Rait... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Very nice. Thanks for posting. I'm still running the SEs. :thumbsup:

@ mulveling: whats the speaker cables that you use to connect the Tannoys please ? They look majestic indeed!

GingerDB... Welcome to AA! :wave:

Indeed, as impressive as the rest of your system.:thumbsup: As a fellow EL34 fan, I've found the Tung-Sol reissue excellent, but not quite up the Gold Lion KT77. Am deciding between the Tung-Sol 6L6GC-STR and 7581A to roll in to compare. EDIT - no longer deciding. 7581As are inbound.

Do you have a Tannoy B&M store in the Atlanta area?

Hey guys, i have a question for you...

What would be better for 35sq meters room, from these 3 choices:

1.) Kensington SE (love their sound....!!!)
2.) Westminster TW (love their look! Didn’t hear them)
3.) Canterbury SE (i read/heard that they are less colorful and clear, and closer to Kensington SE sound only in their GR version)

Generally their price is quite similar, at least now in Europe.
If any of them would need some re-wiring, i’m fine to play with that..no problem...if sound will improve.

Generally i’m happy with Kensington SE sound, but anyway.... what and why would you suggest? Bigger speaker and driver means surely nicer bass..not big need for directioning & positioning speakers...?!?

Btw. My current amp is 2x 30watt in dual-mono, pure class A, tubes 6550 and i like whole set around a lot...

Thank you for sharing your experience and ideas!

Karel

Wow, it's been a few years since I posted my then-new Canterbury GR system. I still love them! As I've refined the rest of my system they give more and more. The most impactful upgrades were as follows:

1. Going from Rogue Ares Magnum phono stage to a VAC Renaissance SE phono. Holy cow, lol.
2. Koetsu diamond cantilever upgrade. Now I have a Blue Lace and CoralStone with the upgrade. Big WOW!
3. Went to VAC Signature 200iQ monoblocks over the Rogue Apollo Darks. What sweet, sweet amps these VACs are.
4. Preamp - The ARC Reference 6 has been stellar. It replaced a Rogue Hera II that I loved, but battled with its noise issues on. BUT I recently made a decision to go all VAC and order a Master preamp. Love the way VAC does midrange, and this will complete an all-VAC electronic chain.

Did not notice this post so it is probably way too late nearly a year later to be useful but could be useful for others I guess. I had Sandringhams, Kensington and Canterburry SEs in a room that was approximately 15x18 feet. Do not hesitate to go with Canterburry but not much smaller than those dimensions as they do like some room to breathe. Both the Sandringhams and Kensingtons are absolutely fine in rooms even smaller.

All very enjoyable speakers with the Canterburry being able to provide a larger, more vivid and lifelike presentation with more palpable and focused imaging and purity of tone. Of course they were much more $ than the other pairs.

Sounds like a fantastic system. Enjoy. :music:

Wow, I thought I had answered that question but looks like I inadvertently ignored it - sorry to Kajos!

Yeah I totally agree. Canterbury should be fine in 18'x15' but don't go into smaller rooms with that model. The Canterbury renders a BIG lifelike presentation the smaller drivers can't match. But the Kensington SE should really sing in ~ 15'x18'; seems pretty close to optimal for it - and it also has a beautiful midrange and vivid sound and more clarity versus Canterbury SE. The Canterbury SE is on the warmer/thicker side whereas the Kensington SE is a bit leaner (though still with beautiful lush mids), and watch those tweeters on gear matching!

Karel's room however is 35sq meters, which is what in american eagle units - 24'x16'? That's a good room size. At that size I'd say consider supplementing the Kensington SE with dual subs. Of course the Canterbury will be quite happy on its own in that room size, and though I don't have Westminster experience it should also be great in that room.

Thank you sir! Going all VAC now, with a Master preamp replacing the Reference 6 :)

The Tannoy Canterbury GRs have impressed me greatly. I've spend numerous hours at the dealer immersed in the special sound driven with base VTL pre and monoblocks via streaming.
I've hand clapped at the end of numerous tracks as they sounded so superb, virtually 10/10.

I only wish I could listen at home and compare them to my Sonus Faber Amati Futuras.

I also like the latest styling of the Tannoy Kingdom Royal.

Anthony

Nice! I hope you get a chance to enjoy them in your home someday :) Sometimes my girlfriend will clap with the recorded audience at the end of live tracks. It's a great feeling for me lol.

I've only had 'em 3.5 years, and nobody has reason to trust any of my "this is the last <such and such> I'm buying" assertions, but these could quite possibly be my "speakers for life". With the SE model I'd have these hot & cold sessions where they seemed stellar for a while, then "not so much" for a little bit, rinse repeat. It was also a bit of a struggle finding a steady system balance, mixing in new gear "now it's too bright" then "oops now it's too dark again!". 5 years of that. The SE were beautiful speakers, but a flawed gem for me. The GR have been 100% of the time a stellar experience from day #1. The GR naturally hits a "musical neutral" for me, as opposed to the SE which I felt were a bit on the dark side (hence the gear matching struggles). And they LOVE the VAC tube gear. Tannoy absolutely nailed it with the GR version.

Here's the system as of today. As you can see, my system has been hitting the gym pretty hard these few years, lol. Compare to the pic at start of this thread. Also the Canterburys have darkened nicely. Actually, I put in an order of three Critical Mass Systems Black Platinum shelves & spike sets for the tube amps & power conditioner. As you can see, the full CMS amp stands would eat up my path to the turntable - but the shelves and spikes alone will be a big upgrade. The VACs deserve better than hockey pucks! The Niagara sits on a lone Lovan Sovereign shelf, man those are truly awful racks to put a nice turntable on. The CMS stuff is so dreamy. Glad I got over the hump of "I would have to be CRAZY to spend $18K on a rack". So I guess I'm crazy :)

https://i.imgur.com/7ybuFBE.jpg

You’ve been busy. Must sound fabulous. I love Tannoy and am glad to see them still kicking.

Thank you sir! It sounds SO good now. This system is the default "weekend plans" for my girlfriend and me.

Didn't you own an Innovation Wood? I was mounting a new-to-me Ortofon A90 Friday, and noticed how loose the aluminum cylinders had gotten over time. Man that was my whole Friday evening tearing down the Innovation Master and figuring out how to re-tighten everything "just so". I'm gonna have to keep on top of this every few months or so.

My Innovation Wood went dead on me and is currently with Clear Audio for repair. You are the third person I have heard of that had to re-tighten everything. Mine seemed to be a Motor problem, which drove me nuts. I replaced it - I can’t figure out how to link to it from here, but search for the thread with the words “svelte 180” in the title to read about the replacement (yes, it weighs 180 pounds).

in your opinion, do you recommend the change from a kensington se to a canterbury se? where will the benefits be? they have the same midrange, only the woofer changes.

tano.longo... Welcome to AA! :wave:

I ask for your help. I am in great difficulty and I am afraid of being overwhelmed. the room is 32 cubic meters

32 cubic meters!? Exactly how many American bald eagle surface areas is that??

Ok, for real though that's what - something roughly like a room 12 feet x 10 feet x 8 feet, right? That is a very small room for speakers of the Kensington/Canterbury size! I would also have concerns of being overwhelmed, very much so. The Kensington might work OK, but I'd definitely look at something even more compact (e.g. Stirlings / Sandringhams). Also look monitor speakers (Fyne Audio makes some nice ones with the Tannoy-style dual concentric). Maybe even the Autograph Mini GR :)

So update - I have to sheepishly admit a friend lent me a Solid State amplifier last week, and I absolutely fell in love with it. It's been so long since I moved on from SS to tube amps, and I hadn't earnestly tried a SS amp in my system for over 10 years now. It sounds to me like...the Canterbury GR actually prefer a SS driver over tubes, as good as those 200iQ are :o

The amp is a Phison A2 120SE. I would never, in a million years, have come to this amp on my own and thought: "this is something I need to try". There is only sparse information about it online. But it's kinda blowing me away. It's also a phenomenal match with the new VAC Master preamp. Adrenaline and detail, without the fatigue (long & loud sessions no problem). It's like it woke up the system by an extra amount I didn't even know was there to be had. Because my primary cables were cut specifically for monoblocks, and this Phison is being run as a stereo unit, I've also had to run it much cheaper speaker cables ($1000 AQ Rocket 88 vs. my usual $10K double Kilimanjaro run) and unhook the supertweeters for my listening so far. Didn't seem to hold it back a bit!!

Well so much for being a lifelong tube snob (I still love them tho).

Here's the mess I've made of my system now - Phison is the silver box in the middle.
https://i.imgur.com/53s9BVj.jpg