A spy in Martens headquarter...me! New Coltrane Supreme II
 

The Marten referens system, Coltrane Supreme is och big speaker system

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1254.jpg

Now, there is an upgrade on its way. Still under development and the boxes are not ready but the speaker elements and filters etc are almost ready.

I had the opportunity to listen to them. Wow. One of my top 3 hifi experiences.
Very god. and will be a bit better when everything is set.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1318.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1286.jpg

Thanks for sharing , very interesting driver lay-out

One picturelink failed in the first post. Here is it.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1286.jpg

The speaker is 5 way. 6 bas elements,17-40 hz plays backwords. 6 elements in the upper and lower front plays the rest of the bas, 2 plays midrange and two diamondtweeters the treble. It will be around 80 inch high.

When the speaker is ready it will look like a Marten but with wider back. The sides will be curved in carbon fiber.

It sounded very natural. Extremely dynamic, both micro and macro dynamics. The 3d and 2d were the best i ever heard. The scene was great and it was a lot of air around every instrument and singer. Bas depth was stunning and still cristal clear like the rest of the frequencies.

The price? Up to 500 000 USD can be expected.

It will be shown i Vegas next year.

Wow!

Today I had the luck to listening to this prototype once more. I played my own familiar CD's and this time a decent camera took care of the pictures.

I just can confirm my earlier impression. These speaker sounds very good. The new Thiel membranes have extremely low distorsion and the sound of this speaker is warm, jet open and fresh. I have never heard so much from the recording and it's environment as this time. I think this is my new standard that every speaker i listen to have to beat.

Here are some new pictures.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-412.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-569.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1046.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1835.jpg


Two diamond tweeters:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l..._P0F7388_2.jpg


Thiel membranes with dimples:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1823.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1189.jpg

4 of them:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-774.jpg

Alone:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l...o/file-719.jpg

This membrane moves more air then you think due to that it goes further out to the edge.

Edit: Foto enhancement.

Interesting design. Thanks for sharing.

Those are seriously impressive, those will be a major assault on the ears, any idea on the retail price yet? I shudder to think.

360,000 Euros:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::eek2:

Just realized that this thread should be in the Marten section instead. Stupid me!
Can it be moved?

Wow. amazing pictures. Thank you.

Is that on the pictures NAT monoblocks?

No! It's Martens own Mono Power Amp. M-Amp. Designed to match their speakers perfect.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1435.jpg

One reason for why it is so expensive is the quit expensive elements all over the speaker. 16 membranes they are. The lower diamond tweeter costs 23.000USD for one. :yes:

Where is it likely to debut CES ? or then MOC next year ....

Leif by Marten told me that it will be shown at CES.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1318.jpg

A lot of cheap crossover parts correcting the timing errors for all the expensive drivers and very big cabinet.
Why not use Duelund in this very expensive speaker?

How do you know that the crossover parts are cheap???
Due to my knowledge about the crossover, there is no cheap parts present at all. They are very careful selected from the top products out there.

The whole idea of the front membrane is that the they play without any timing errors. The membranes are all in the same line. That is not so common. The crossover can therefore be very simple. The bas membranes in the back is just playing below 40hz and since the wavelength is long (longer than most of the listening rooms out there) the positioning of these are less important as it is higher up in frequences.

Some of the words that comes to me about the speaker is the best timing I'v heard, definition and dynamik presentation.

I know Leif quite well from having owned Marten Coltranes before and spoken to him on many occasions. These new speakers look interesting. I saw the new Accuton sandwich bass drivers recently when I inspected the new Coltrane Tenor's in my Dealer's showroom. It looks like they're being used in the upper bass-mid-bass region in this application.

In regards to the two diamond tweeters you mentioned. Actually the larger diamond driver is a Diamond midrange. You mentioned he will be running 2 x diamond midrange & 2 x diamond tweeters. That would mean he is adding a rear-firing diamond midrange & tweeter, but the open cavity in the mock up suggests he might be using a transmission line mid/tweeter arrangement?

Following on from the above, Leif is now using the latest Cell-concept diamond midrange and tweeter which have lower distortion than the previous generation, better decay & are inherently time coherent in a flat front baffle as they share the same acoustic center. But i'm surprised Marten are not using the latest black-coated ceramic (BCC) drivers as per Avalon's new Tesseract, which by the way also uses the Cell-concept diamond midrange and tweeter & comes in $200k cheaper? I can only assume they couldn't reach an agreement to use these drivers :scratch2:

Hi Bodhisattva!

I never mentioned 2 diamond midrange. There is 2 midrange membrane one white smaller and just below it's one convex midrange element that looks like most of the rest.

I wrote in earlier post: "The speaker is 5 way. 6 bas elements, 17-40 hz plays backwords. 6 elements in the upper and lower front plays the rest of the bas, 2 plays midrange and two diamondtweeters the treble."

The bigger of the 2 diamonds play 4000-8000hz, I'm pretty sure. Perhaps it's in between midrange and tweeter.
4000-8000hz tweets i my ear.:D

OK, but that is how your description read. This should be a superb speaker, but for my money I would bank $200k and buy the Avalon Teseract..:yes:

The crossover parts are cheap indeed (at least for this kind of speaker), but let's not forget that this is only a prototype crossover ... thay may opt for something more fancy when the design is finalised, or close to beeing finalysed.

I see standard off the shelf parts from Mundorf and Solen, not any extraordinary good ones.
Total price around €2000 pr speaker.

I've seen better crossover parts used in speakers costing €300,000 less.

Tesseract have not a diamond midrange.

Avalon uses these elements in Tessaract.

4x15" sub woofers
1x11" ceramic/honeycomb midbass
1x4.5" ceramic mid
1x 0.78" diamond tweeter


The crossover components in Supreme II are just in this test model.

You're correct regarding the ceramic mid. It's still a heck of a speaker. I prefer the BCC Accutons which have better damping than the previous generation. Also, Avalon are using the CELL-concept drivers which have lower distortion and are more coherent than previous generations. Avalon speakers have always sounded natural and coherent & are great sound stagers. But the new Tesseract looks like it also delivers serious bass. Vive la difference as they say :yes:

I have heard Avalon several times, not always my favorite, but some times really good. It's like always, the importance of the match with other gear. Tthe room and the acoustic is also important.
I have no doubt that Tesseract is a very very good speaker.

Thought, this thread is about the test version of Marten Supreme II.

I don't take a bad listening experience as the truth of a HiFi gear. But a good listening experience counts.
Bad gear can't sound good but good gear can sound bad.

Some brands makes me smile other don't. It's not always easy to say why.
It's also to some content personal. Especially when we talk about gear in this price range.

Doesn't the Supreme 2 incorporate the new 'Cell' tech drivers or am I missing something ?

Yes, the Coltrane Supreme 2 is using the Cell concept Diamond Tweeter & midrange...both excellent. I was just making the point the Tesseract is also using these drivers, but not the diamond version mid. Anyway, point taken about the Marten thread. I'll be quiet now ;)

I'll like you not to be quiet. It's always interesting to discuss speakers and of course some sidesteps is good. :)

SO, the Coltrane Supreme FOUR tower speakers is down sizing to just TWO towers?? 360,000 Euros seems a wee bit high for only two towers....unless there will be two extra ones for the Supreme???

Cheers,

I do like this design much better than the Original. And i don't think to built and develop this speaker is not cheaper than the old version.
But it is still a crazy lot of money.

Interesting, the design used on the Thiel drivers. I see nothing wrong with the prototype xover used, very rarely will you see expensive parts when prototyping due to the very nature of development and change .

Expensive parts and layout are usually left until production is finalized ....

Just to be sure. Do you mean Thiel from kentucky? If so. Correction needed.
The drivers are from Accuton in Germany. Thiel & Partner GMBH, not the speaker Thiel. The drivers are a very special Aluminum structure. Built as honeycomb and very light and rigid. It's also something with the magnets position that helps the air flow more easy and therefore makes the membrane move easy and correct. I think Marten is the first company with this new drivers. The new Coltrane Tenor has got them. It's a small speaker that sounds great. Costly thought, as great speakers often are. How come?

accuton® Carefully selected loudspeaker drivers. | Company

/Apexorca

Thanks for the correction , they do look like something accuton would do. speciality production, development cost and low volume numbers would make the cost pretty high...

Can someone give an opinion on diamond vs. Be as a driver material for tweeters?

I was invited as one of the first to listen to Martens new speaker. I'm honored. Now the speaker is ready to meet the world.
Leif at Marten together with Dirk from Accuton have made the last fine tuning just before I arrived.
It's a lot to say about this new speaker. It's the only one in it's class so far. The membranes are all in the same phase. The crossover and the extreme membranes makes the time alignment very precise. The delay from signal to move the membrane is near zero time delay. Maybe the fastes in the world.

I'v heard the prototype, but now it's even better. I have never heard this high resolution. The sound is like just true. Nothing is in the way of the signal. It just flows into your ear and sounds natural and musical. Dynamics is fantastic especially the microdynamics witch probably is the biggest difference to anything I ever heard. And this makes the music sound more live and true.
This is not a speaker for those who likes a little extra added from this or from that. It's playing the music as it is in a musical distortion free way.

I have heard a lot of reference system but this has reached a new level of reproduced music. As it was a new level of sound it was a little bit hard to relate to. So, it took a while to gather some kind of properties witch make the impression.

Fore those who has the opportunity to listen to this speaker at CES 2014 in Las Vegas . Try to do so.
I think they will play with a Pass lab reference gear. And maybe, it will be the best sound at CES next year. I would not be surprised.

Since the speaker not is officially born jet I just can show you a part of the speaker. But I assure you. It looks fantastic. All a bout it scream expensive and potent.

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l.../file-1078.jpg

/ Apexorca

It appears therefore that it is the superior transient response of the diamond membrane (not necessairly the extended frequency response) that results in the superior treble of the speaker. A silk dome is inherenly slower than that of a diamond membrane.

It´s a small picture but you get the ideá

http://cybwiz.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v106/p44560388-3.jpg

I can only imagine what the level of resolution is, but I can't reconcile their ugly looks. If I had that kind of money, i'd be auditioning the Avalon Tesseract, Rockport Arrakis, Cessaro Gamma 1 & Genesis 1.2's :yes:

http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/88/1000x500...prod_1p202.jpg

+10 on the Gen 1.2's.....:thumbsup:

Then it must be stiffer , possible between fabric and metal, the metal dome can be made very good , i did a lot of experimeting with them in the 90's focal did attempt to get them right but even they missed what was necessary , inverting was the right direction, but done differently ...

Regards