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Does your McIntosh benefit from fancy power cables?
Does your McIntosh benefit from fancy power cables?
I had a demo today and cables came up. The guy told me that power cables mater more than speaker cables (I'm assuming that if the speaker wire is already decent). AVS forum where I also spend time is very anti high end cables, so I'm conflicted between my 2 favorite audio forums (AA seems to love them). I had to hear this for myself, I ask if there is any scientific proof like A/B or double blind testing done? He said lets try it out right now! He takes a standard power cord out of his office and swaps the Nordost for the standard power cord. I'm not going to say this was a night and day difference, and a placebo effect could certainly have happened. But what I heard was a subtle noticeable positive change. All the cables where Nordost, he only pulled the power cable from one component on a boulder system. Does Mc equipment typically benefit from upgrading power cables? I'm considering getting a couple for my Pre/pro. |
It would actually be quite easy to build a switching box that could swap power cords between power cord A and power cord B in real time. Even still it's quite difficult to remember what you heard three seconds ago vs three minutes ago ...
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He had it in less than a minute between swaps and powering the pre back on. How would I build a box for quick a/b testing? That's a good idea.
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I faced the same situation. I spent a lifetime in high-tech electronics and was very skeptical. My dealer was very savvy about this, he did not try to convince me, just sent me home with a few Nordost Diamondback P/C's. They remained in my system. You'll have to decide if the improvement is worth the cost. :music:
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I'm a strong believer after buying an unseen/unheard Shunyata King Cobra (V1) many years ago for a Esoteric DV50S. You are absolutely preaching my preferences in the cable hierarchy -- power, speaker and then interconnects.
My signature with Nordost Odin says I'm a disciple & it has been an interesting journey over the years since that first Shunyata. Best Sir, Bob |
Short answer is “Yes”. I am in the process of switching out two components from Classe Audio to Mac and will be using the same Shunyata power conditioner and Shunyata power cords.
Go to the Shunyata forum and find the thread about whether a Hydra conditioner will improve a system and then read all of the detailed posts by Grant. They cover more than just conditioners. You will not get this level of professional detailed information at the other forum. |
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2 I am keenly aware of human bias which makes clear we hear and see what we want or what we assume. We then construct a logical case to support what we believe. We don't truly look objectively at about anything in our life. 3 Then there is what I consider common sense. A If I am paying more than $6k for each monoblock and the manufacturer is not maximizing his product by giving me inferior cords, I need look to a different manufacture, don't you think? B We have no control over the power from the power plant until our house. At that point a 3 foot wire will transform it? Hello. (McIntosh suggests we plug amps directly into wall, not after conditioners) ----------------- and then you have the old, does it sound better or different? Tube amps introduce distortion that is loved by many.... yet, it's distortion that is making the music "warm." so is it "better?" See? |
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Eljr
Read the posts I cited and watch the video. There are measurements. Major hospitals are now using Shunyata power products for their most sensitive medical measurement devices. Music recording studios are doing the same. Obviously none of them are as smart as you. |
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You offered no links and provided no quotes or graphs. I'll be glad to review them if you do. Quote:
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Does your McIntosh benefit from fancy power cables?
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+1. Call me vein, paranoid, whatever you want, but after investing $X0,000 in my music room/system, I couldn’t live with the stock PCs. |
I replaced all my power lines in the walls to 12 gauge, use Shunyata receptacles, Shunyata power cables with amps(MC275’s) into the walls and a Shunyata AV distribution to my C500T and Aesthetix Rhea.
No comparison to stock cables. It is pitch black silent. It has amazing dynamics, wonderful resolution and soundstage width outside the walls. |
I will never use a stock cable again after hearing what Shunyata power cables have done for my system.
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I do not use that stuff they push on AVS or the awful Audioholic site for interconnects. I use Audioquest, Wireworld and Pangea. My long runs of Cat 6 I used Blue Jeans. (full disclosure) I have however never replaced a power cord. Just seems a bit extreme to me. Yet, I ran separate 20 amp lines for each power amp, with hospital grade outlets. I always buy SACD's and hi-res downloads if available yet I have never heard a differance. Why? Well, as you stated, it's makes me feel good and also, why chance it? --------------------------- I'd be absolutely shocked if a double blind study showed that a power cord made sound perceivable different and on top of that if the difference were always perceived as "better." --------------------------- Funny thing is, I might just look around for some power cords after your post. Not sure why I developed a mental block to them but not interconnects. Like I said, Why not? |
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Yeah, I think I may start shopping... what's on sale and reasonable? |
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I heard a more noticable difference between power cables, than I did trying to compare 320 and flac on my paradigm computer speakers. He had a sweet nordost cable, and he found a standard cable he kept in his office. It wasn't an OEM Mc cable, it looked like a standard 18 gauge would work with any appliance with a removable cord. My Mc amp came with a 14 gauge cable. What I heard was audible, even if just subtle. But was I tricked by because the cord may have been lesser than OEM cables? I don't know. If you can suspend disbelief for a minute, does the fancy power cable sound better because it's a heavier gauge wire? Is it better shielding? The dealer stated that the cable is braided a special way that blocks noise naturally, that sounds fishy. Is it that it's silver plated copper? I'm a manufacturer of consumer products myself, and I know what it costs to build some things. In my industry, actual material costs make up 10% of the final retail price. Labor makes up 12%. The rest is overhead, management, marketing, etc. If Mc spent as little as $50 on upgrading the cable the product price may go up $500 to do so. On the other hand our amps are a premium product and should have the best cables with no audible sacrifice. |
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Something else often missed is that when we buy a product we are also buying into a tribe. |
The information and the link to the video are in the posts by Grant that I cited. It is all there.
Additional information and the link to the video again are in posts by Grant in the Shunyata forum in the thread about Black Mamba CX power cords. |
this discussion will go no where unfortunately
Each camp has their opinion on the subject. The OP already decided not to go the upgrade route on numerous other posts. |
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Master Lu:
Grant has done some excellent posts in the two threads I cited. Would it be possible to copy these and paste them into one post, along with links to the videos, and make it a Sticky in the Shunyata forum, for easier reference, and to conserve Grants busy time. |
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To make a long story short, I played Brian Bromberg - Choices CD first with the stock PC's, then I replaced the stock PC's with the WW Silver Electra PC's and played the same CD again. To say I was startled at the improved bass response and midrange clarity would be an understatement. Brian's acoustic double bass took on a richness to the tone of bass strings and the instrument's vibrating wood that I had not experienced before. To be certain I was not suffering from a placebo effect I returned the stock PC's to the MC501's and played the title track "Choices" once again. The sense of deeper, more robust texture and depth of Brian's acoustic double bass vanished. That's not to say the sound was bad with the stock PC's, just not as fully rendered and solid. I could hardly believe what my ears were telling me. I returned the Wireworld Silver Electra power cords to the MC501's, played "Choices" once again and was immediately captured once again at the overall improvement, particularly in the lowest frequency range. At that moment I became a believer in premium power cords. To be honest I did not want to believe it because it meant I was going to have to let go of some cash to keep the two power cords in my system. I really wasn't looking forward to that, but there was no denying the worth of the Silver Electra PC's on the amplifiers. I wrote the check and several more as I continued to upgrade the remainder of my component power cords. Today I have two separate sound systems and all components are powered with Wireworld Silver Electra power cords. From that first experience demoing the Wireworld PC's I never once considered that somehow I was deluding myself or hearing what I wanted to hear. I had no idea what to expect until after I first experienced it. There was verifiable auditory improvements in my sound system when performing A/B comparisons between stock power cords and the Silver Electra power cords. Like I said, I was hoping I would not hear a difference because I had no burning desire to be writing checks for power cords. For me, the results of improved low frequency depth, robustness, and texture, along with a more focused midrange, justified the expense and made the upgrade worthwhile. |
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I need to get some better subs first, which is where I'm seriously lacking. The subwoofer demo brought me to a detailed wire discussion which is why I'm essentially taking an informal poll from people with similar gear. |
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Compromise is something most people have to deal with. Priorities in system building are commonly Speakers,Amps,Source and then down the line. As you get closer to the finish line small differences are more noticeable,like cable upgrades. I have a laundry list of things I still want for my system but I have to prioritize according to biggest return. |
I have an electrician coming to my home soon, so I'm going to piggyback wall power outlet receptacles first too. And that 1,600 power cord was in the middle, that doesn't even come close to the tippy top of power cable costs (and it's pinkish purple :nono:) .
https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=40854 |
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If you do decide to pursue this, my suggestion is to purchase from a seller where you can demonstrate the cables in your own home who will allow you to return the item for a full refund within x days if dissatisfied. This will put you in an ideal position to form your own judgment as to whether or not you experience improvements, and whether any improvements are justified by the cost. |
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Make sure the electrician hooks all your cables up in phase to reduce the risk of hum. I would also recommend trying to keep all power lines to your system the same length. Finally, if you are running new wire run the heaviest gauge you can. Vince B. at MSB recommended 10 gauge but this s will not fit through most standard outlet boxes. I ran 12 gauge with 6 separate lines to the fuse box on two walls. This allows for various equipment and speaker locations as well as extra power hookups for unforeseen needs( subs, biamping, new digital sources,etc. ). Good luck and enjoy. |
Msegal, thanks for the advice, but it's roughy 20 years old. I don't know the gauge, but it's likely nothing special.
It looks like standard 15 amp wall outlets, and I beleive the breaker is on a 20 amp switch. For all I know the whole room is ganged on one breaker :no: |
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What about for your sources/preamp? What power cord and/or line conditioner? |
I saw the video that Grant posted. It was fascinating to see that a stock cable cuts the available juice in half, and the meter showed to be more stable on a premium cord.
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My 3 epiphanies in this hobby are: 1.) high-end ICs/PCs. 2.) MC cartridges. & 3.) high-end phono-preamps. All many years ago. Get the best you can afford and that sound the best to your ears. |
Count me in the camp that also has never spent a dime on aftermarket power cords. I make a decent living like most here who have expensive mac gear and other high end gear. Guess it comes down to me not being a believer. My non believer status is 100% due to never having the opportunity to demo them though.
But that will change soon...I'll be able to listen to some very nice gear next week and plan on doing some PC listening. I'll report back! Good discussion and nice that its' been pretty decent. This is a good forum. Although it sure has made me spend more on my components! Think its referred to as Lu Flu? Dan's Wonderful Review Syndrome! :) |
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https://bobramseyseminars.files.word...ol-aid-man.jpg I have re-posted my signature so you can see what the systems include. |
For me, changing out the stock power cords to WireWorld Silver Electra had such a profound difference in my listening experience that I now have a full loom of Silver and even Platinum power cords for the amps. Back when I decided to go this route, I had a buddy of mine who is a drummer and singer and we tested my stock verse WireWorld. At the time nothing else was changed from the basic low-end interconnects that I had on hand at the time. We literally heard the vocals rise and snap in place. At that time I, we, became a believer. I understand some folks have problems with this, but I know what I heard and it was enough to commit over the next year to slowly change out all my cables to the best I could afford that was the best value / performance point for me. I also had a great time in doing so. I hope you have as much fun as I have in enjoying this great hobby / discovery, as I have.
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