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-   -   Isolating a VPI Classic (https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=23809)

Bikeman71 11-04-2013 10:47 PM

Isolating a VPI Classic
 
PMCH (Paul) has become a really bad influence. After a wonderful experience when buying his PMC speakers, I couldn't help myself when his VPI Classic became available...

I need the help of our resident analog masters. I want to isolate the TT in the best way possible. I have been making stands for each of my components...so far, I've been using 1.5" thick solid walnut stands with brass cones placed on my rack (see pics below.)

Would a similar approach be beneficial on the top shelf of the rack for a VPI Classic? Would it be more beneficial to use a walnut stand placed on isolation blocks and not use the cones for this application? Or, should I bypass the extra stand all-together?

Thoughts?



http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps971bd4d9.jpg

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd7dd155e.jpg

Bikeman71 11-06-2013 02:04 AM

Bump for ideas. The TT arrives tomorrow.

I guess the question is based in physics. The cones should help deliver energy away from the turntable, but in turn could deliver energy from elsewhere to the TT.

The isolation blocks would absorb and deaden energy coming either way. I'm guessing that is the primary job of the feet of the TT.

I'm assuming the cones would help "hook up" the turntable to the stand and rack...in turn acting as added mass to the TT? The isolation blocks would separate the TT from everything beyond the stand.

What makes more sense here? :scratch2:

Sunshyne 11-06-2013 08:02 AM

Bump for ideas. Sorry I don't have any knowledge on the subject. The walnut rack is beautiful, the Classic 1 should look great on it.

DonBattles 11-06-2013 11:15 AM

Why not just try the table on the rack as is and see if you actually have a problem before you do anything.

HiFiCrossFit 11-06-2013 12:05 PM

I know VPI puts a lot of faith in the plinth/table alone. I would agree with Don, try the table first just sitting on the rack.

ronenash 11-06-2013 10:37 PM

My classic works great when placed directly on the rack. The isolation of the VPI feet is very good with no feedback problems whatsoever.

Down Under 11-08-2013 12:10 AM

I had a Gingko cloud platform under my VPI super scoutmaster.
It was the best $400 I have spent on my system.I don't know if they do them for the Vpi Classic.There are are reviews on the net for the effect on the SSM though.

Bikeman71 11-12-2013 02:10 AM

I owe it to you fine folks to report back on my findings.

First, the VPI Classic is a beautiful piece of equipment. Gawk-worthy in every sense. Second, when combined with the Soundsmith Zephyr, a Wireworld Platinum IC, and a choice piece of vinyl, the sound is magical. A freaky dead-black background like I've never heard with vinyl before. It bests the MVP881 with a SACD in every respect except when good vinyl is not available. Right now I'm listening to Alison Krauss and US, So Long So Wrong on MOFI 180 gram vinyl and the sound is amazing....so much air and the soundstage is HUGE! With Krauss, her crazy effortless high notes can sound a little digital on CD or SACD....vinyl smooths everything out. So cool. :music:

The stand ended up making no noticeable difference to my ear. Placed directly on the top shelf of the rack, I could jump up and down right in front of the rack and get no noise. I could also knock on the top shelf and no noise would end up being produced through the Classic...extremely impressive. The final decision on going without the rack came because the height of the TT on the top shelf is at a perfect height for changing records....it just feels and looks right. :thumbsup:

Thanks to all who responded with tips!

Brent

PMCH 11-12-2013 02:39 PM

Brent, glad everything is working out so well for you. You will have to post a picture of the Classic on your walnut rack. Bet it looks fantastic.

Quin 11-24-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down Under (Post 548873)
I had a Gingko cloud platform under my VPI super scoutmaster. It was the best $400 I have spent on my system.I don't know if they do them for the Vpi Classic.There are are reviews on the net for the effect on the SSM though.

Gingko does make a platform for the Classic. It has made a difference and do recommend it. I have had mine since the purchase of my Classic about two and half years ago. Model is the 11C. Bought the table top cover which is made to fit the platform/covers beveled edges. I got mine through Acoustic Sounds.

jonny reddish 11-25-2014 11:20 PM

one word.... stillpoints.... talk to MasterLu for the deal...

chessman 11-25-2014 11:30 PM

another word .... necro-threading....:D

o0OBillO0o 11-26-2014 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessman (Post 653627)
another word .... necro-threading....:D

Nothing wrong with bringing good info from the past. Thanks for digging this thread up.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

chessman 11-26-2014 01:11 AM

I didn't mean to imply the advice was bad. I just thought a one year gap between question and answer was funny.

BillK 11-26-2014 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down Under (Post 548873)
I had a Gingko cloud platform under my VPI super scoutmaster.
It was the best $400 I have spent on my system.I don't know if they do them for the Vpi Classic.There are are reviews on the net for the effect on the SSM though.

I agree.

I also had a bit of acoustic feedback on the SSM that the Cloud 12S eliminated completely.

TWiiii 01-15-2015 01:29 PM

When I was installing discos in the 70's and 80's we had two choices, mass was one and the other was a tuned suspension. Mass was the easiest, just fill a well constructed box with sand and a heavy steel top. But some times that didn't work. Especially when the DJ booth was on a suspended balcony or hung off a wall. Then the only choice was to tune the mounting platform and select a cartridge, tone arm combination that wasn't effected by the resonant frequency of the mounting. There were a few companies that made platforms for disco TT to sit on that you could tune by adjusting the feet. Some worked most didn't. There was one company that had three different platforms with different frequency tuning. They worked well but I don't know if they are in business any more. A nice heavy piece of steel with a choice of springs worked for me on a few occasions, when using QRK tables Why QRK, because the owners wanted instant acceleration and be able to slip Q, too. Sl 1200 were a great feedback solution TT but they couldn't come up or hold speed like a puck driven TT. And you needed the mass to reduce the TT table rumble. We used external pre-amps with 30 HZ filters to calm down down the QRK imperfections with Stanton cartridges.

allvinyl 01-15-2015 03:44 PM

Stillpoints under VPI Classic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikeman71 (Post 547877)
PMCH (Paul) has become a really bad influence. After a wonderful experience when buying his PMC speakers, I couldn't help myself when his VPI Classic became available...

I need the help of our resident analog masters. I want to isolate the TT in the best way possible. I have been making stands for each of my components...so far, I've been using 1.5" thick solid walnut stands with brass cones placed on my rack (see pics below.)

Would a similar approach be beneficial on the top shelf of the rack for a VPI Classic? Would it be more beneficial to use a walnut stand placed on isolation blocks and not use the cones for this application? Or, should I bypass the extra stand all-together?

Thoughts?

I know several Classic owners that have replaced the OEM feet with Stillpoints Ultra SS and are very pleased with the improvements.

John

longbowbbs 01-15-2015 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allvinyl (Post 667310)
I know several Classic owners that have replaced the OEM feet with Stillpoints Ultra SS and are very pleased with the improvements.

John

John do you have the screws to fit the VPI's? It would be fun to try the Ultra SS's with my Scout 1.1.

Eric

PMCH 01-16-2015 07:50 PM

I really like my Symposium Segue ISO platform with the springs on the bottom. I could hear an improvement as soon as I placed it under my Classic 3. Replacing the footer inserts with Symposium inserts also improved the sound quality for me. I don't have my TT on an expensive stand though.

Timobi 04-13-2017 12:10 PM

Hey Guys...I am having an issue with Low Frequency rumble. I own a VPI classic signature. Just purchased some platforms from Symposium Acoustics. The rumble didn't appear until after getting the platforms. I use one for my MC452 and C2600 as well.

Placing the TT directly on my wood console is fine.

Thoughts?

j3brow 04-13-2017 03:10 PM

Hmm ... I used a Symposium Ultra shelf under my VPI Scoutmaster for years without issue. I had a bad rumble issue with my Scoutmaster when using a phono stage without a subsonic filter, at that time I used a svelte shelf which didn't fix rumble.

j3brow 04-13-2017 03:13 PM

I can only assume the Sym shelf is not compatible with your TT and associated gear, why I don't know, I would go back to wood console. Rumble is the pits, I hated seeing the woofers "flying".

PMCH 04-13-2017 03:56 PM

I have never had any problems with rumble under my VPI Classic on top of my Symposium ISO platform (the one with springs). I never tried the VPI on a Svelte shelf. I put all of my other components on Stillpoints and then Svelte shelves and really like the way it sounds. I don't have a audiophile rack though. I would also just leave your VPI on the wood shelf if it sounds better. You can always use the platform under something else.

audioguy3107 04-13-2017 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timobi (Post 841651)
Hey Guys...I am having an issue with Low Frequency rumble. I own a VPI classic signature. Just purchased some platforms from Symposium Acoustics. The rumble didn't appear until after getting the platforms. I use one for my MC452 and C2600 as well.

Placing the TT directly on my wood console is fine.

Thoughts?

Hmmmmm....I wouldn't think it's the Symposium products. I have a Segue ISO under my Classic Signature and it worked wonders. I had my table sitting directly on the top shelf of my maple rack...now the table was quiet, but if you walked with a purpose or tapped the rack at all, you would get feedback through the interconnects/table. The Symposium product solved the problem 100%. It's all dead quiet now. Would you be able to post some pictures of the setup? That may help us see what's going on and give some more ideas.

- Buck

miner 04-17-2017 08:44 AM

3D tone arm
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timobi (Post 841651)
Hey Guys...I am having an issue with Low Frequency rumble. I own a VPI classic signature. Just purchased some platforms from Symposium Acoustics. The rumble didn't appear until after getting the platforms. I use one for my MC452 and C2600 as well.

Placing the TT directly on my wood console is fine.

Thoughts?

I was having that issue with my Aries 3x3. My TT is on a 3.5" platform supported by isoblocks on top of my component stand. I first tried the KAB RF-1 rumble filter but I soon felt it was introducing noise to the system. I then moved my setup around, got the sub away from the TT and that helped quite a bit. One item that was brought to my attention on the VPI forum was the way the arm is setup. When I bought my TT I had the dealer set up the arm. I have since become more comfortable with the design of the 3D arm and arm board that I now do my own tweaking and checking on specs. I feel 50% of my issue was the way arm was initially setup. The base of the female bearing cup the uni-pivot fits into needs to be no further than 1/4" from top of the arm boards. The stability of the arm is compromised if the gap is larger than 1/4". I would first check your arm for this critical step. If your gap is too large you can adjust it by using an allen wrench on the adjustment nut through the top of the arm above the pivot point CCW turn will lower the cup. Once you adjust for the correct gap between base of bearing cup/tone arm and top of arm board then using the on-the-fly VTA adjustment raise your arm board until arm is parallel with LP surface. This will get you in the ball park for a starting point for VTA adjustment. My Cadenza Black gets good results with the tail of the tone arm just a bit high. Pic attached is of tone arm prior to lowering down closer to arm board.

miner 06-17-2017 02:14 PM

I ended up reinserting the KAB filter and removed spikes from platform. The platform rests upon isoblocks with a layer of Herbies grungebuster between blocks an platform. All seems Ok for now

Ricpan 06-17-2017 07:29 PM

It all depends on the floor you have and then the rack. I have a concrete slab with no basement. No special rack. My Classic 3SE set on 2" maple butcher block with thick sorbothane pads under then the rack. It works for me . Love the table. A forever piece.


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