Considering the Stellar line - some questions
 

I'm seriously considering PS Audio amplification for my Mirage M7si speakers; but I would like some advice.

First, I checked on PS Audio's warranty length. Three years seems a bit short. I assumed it was at least five years as I've seen people getting PS Audio regenerators replaced under warranty and never thought they were lasting less than three years. I realize a class D amp will be under much less stress than a regenerator though; so I assume the amps will offer many years of trouble free service.

The only other concern is, what model should I buy? I am limited to about $2500 for this year.

Should I get the S300 now and get the stellar gain cell next year?
Should I get a pre-amp other than the stellar gain cell next year?
Should I squeeze out every last penny of my audio fund to by a pair of M700 instead of the S300?
I don't think I need the power of the monoblocks; but I read somewhere that they sound better. I don't need a pre-amp immediately because I'll use my Arcam A80 as a pre-amp.
I'm leaning toward getting a pair of M700 since I see people online selling their S300 to buy the M700.

Everything I've read in both reviews and buyers' comments is that the M700 mono amps are significantly better sounding than the S300 besides having more power. So if they're within your budget I'd suggest going for the M700 amps.

M700’s :thumbsup:

I own a Stellar S300 and really like it. I will go against the grain and recommend the S300 with matching Stellar DAC-preamp. Same designer and engineering team. Meant to be together.

I would start off with the M700 but would also suggest you check in at the PS Audio forum where you will find dozens of Stellar owners many who have started with the S300 and pretty quickly switched to the M700's. You can decide on a different preamp when funds permit.

I will chime in again. Your speakers are two-ways with maximum power handling of 175W RMS. In-room sensitivity is 88db with a 4-ohm minimum impedance. Both the M700 and S300 can provide ample power to your speakers while remaining stable.

Your Arcam A80 originally retailed for in excess of $1k. With that in mind, you could trade it in to PS Audio and receive an $840 credit toward the Stellar DAC-Pre / S300 combo resulting in an out-of-pocket cost below $2k. Assuming you are also entertaining new DACs based on your original post, I believe the Stellar DAC-Pre / S300 combo would provide more thrills and enjoyment with your Mirage speakers than the Arcam A80 / M700 combo. The Stellar DAC-Pre has so many useful inputs, and you may really appreciate the ability to connect the DAC-Pre to the S300 amplifier using XLRs. A very quiet and robust connection.

Others may have switched from the S300 to a pair of M700s, but your circumstances and the corresponding "best bang for the buck" may differ.

how big is the difference between M700 and BHK 250?

I read somewhere that PS Audio voiced the Stellar amps to sound like the BHK amps. How close they are, I don't know. I'm sure the BHKs are better built and closer to top level sound.

Hi JoyfulNoise, what did you use before the S300 and Stellar DAC-preamp? It seems they were an upgrade for you instead of a side step.

I didn't know about the trade in program through PS Audio. I actually have an Arcam A80 and P80; but I planned on keeping them. I remembered Ivan is a PS Audio dealer and figured I'd buy from him. Many of us are familiar with Ivan's awesome customer service; he already PM'ed me a couple days ago like a mind reader.

I'm waiting on my purchase until about the first week of May; just in case I win something in the 9th Anniversary giveaway, or if something in my other thread for amp recommendations changes my mind about going with the Stellars.

Hi G8YU -
I use a Stellar S300 to power the mains in my multi-channel audio/video system. It replaced a very competent Parasound power amplifier (275v2 - $600 retail), and my assessment is that the Stellar is an upgrade. Using XLR connections between an Anthem AVM 60 pre/pro and the Stellar, I notice a lower noise floor and a punchier, more vivid sound. I have been quite pleased with its overall performance, and it has remained stable, delivering all the power needed for relatively long movie sessions. I will qualify my observations a bit, though, as the Focal Aria speakers used in this system are quite efficient.

I have purchased from Ivan in the past and agree that he delivers great service.

Stellar M700 Monoblock
 

Still in the process of break in on my pair (M700) driving ML Classic ESL 9. I like the impact and clarity as much if not more than my Mac M275's. In the future I will run the amps through the set up process of my Mac MEN220 in an effort to enhance even further. BTW I bought mine used for <than $1900.00.
:thumbsup:

Hi Ruger2, thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum. :wave:

Thanks to everyone who responded here. :)

I ordered a pair of M700's from Ivan this afternoon, and they already shipped. :banana:

Thanks Ivan! :yourock:

My pleasure! :tiphat:

Did you get the amps yet ? And if so, how do they sound ?

I am interested in three of these amps for use across the front......

Never really heard class D amps....

Any info is appreciated

Shelly

I heard these at last year's Capital Audiofest. The vendor, who seemed to know a fair amount about Class D amplifiers, kept stressing that these amps were new (and not yet broken in), and that (being Class D) would need more time to break in, compared to a Class A/B amplifier.

A great question!!! One of the reasons I joined this forum. Anybody?

tmmuch... Welcome to AA! :wave:

I am doing the exact same thing. Classics and M700’s along with the stellar gcd. So far so good. What cables are you using?

Any additional feedback on the S300 vs M700 amps? Not sure I want (or need) a second full-width amp.

Great listening with the PS Audio M700
 

Here's my impressions on the M700 monoblocks that I got from Ivan. It's rather embarrassing that it has taken me so long to post this. In my defense, I had this nearly complete in the autumn; and the flash drive where it was saved suddenly died. Around Christmas I looked back at some notes and began writing this again the best I could from memory. My apologies to anyone who's been waiting for me to post this.

I'll begin at the unboxing of the black M700 amps. I guessed that class D amps would be light, and they are; but, they are solid and well constructed. They also have nice rubber feet and enough heft to stay flat and in place on the shelf with reasonably large, stiff wires plugged in the back. I like appearance of the design and the black, lightly textured finish. There is a red light that I think looks nice glowing from the case vents. I'm not too sure about that big glowing blue square for the power button. The amps are close to the floor and off center, so the glow doesn't bug me. I think it might have looked a little better to me if it had been a rounded corner square button/light which might match the faceplate design better.

I put the amps on separate shelves and had no trouble hooking them up. I even used the 12v triggers so that they turn on (or off) automatically when the Arcam A80 (used as a preamp) is turned on. I did have to change the speaker cable arrangement a little since each M700 would drive one speaker in traditional monoblock fashion. The Arcams had been hooked up for the A80 driving the tweeters and midrange and the P80 driving the woofers.

Reviews that I had read of the M700 said that they were very silent amps. Maybe we have noisy power then because I hear about the same amount of white noise hiss as the Arcams had. With no music playing I can't hear it from the listening position; but it's easy to hear at less than 2ft from a speaker.

As the A80 has a numbered volume control, I noticed that the volume control needed to be set quite a bit higher for the same apparent volume. We used to listen with the volume set in the 30-38 range. The M700 seemed to need the volume set above 40. This might have been expected since the M700 info lists a lower sensitivity value than the Arcam's amplifier sections. What wasn't expected was that we weren't turning up the volume as far as the amps got more hours of use on them. Maybe it was just our ears/brains adjusting all along. Something else that was strange was that in all the years we used the Arcams the sources had different volumes. The A80 has a menu to allow the adjustment of each source's volume so that you could get them to match; but we never bothered adjusting them. Now that the A80 was only functioning as a preamp/source selector driving the M700 pair, all the sources seem to match closely in volume.

The amps sounded mostly good at first and improved from there for probably more than a month. When we weren't listening to music, the amps were left on with a FM tuner playing through them at various low volume levels for a little over a week to hopefully quicken the break-in. I'm glad that I separated the amps on different shelves because they run warm. They don't get quite as warm as the Arcams did; but warm enough that it's obvious the vents in the amp case are necessary.

When we started to turn the amps off between listening sessions I noticed that the cases stay barely warm to the touch when turned off (standby), about 5 degrees above room temperature. This must help them reach optimal temperature quickly, as they seem to already sound their best within 10-15 minutes from turn on. The Arcams needed about 45 minutes of warm up to sound their best.

Once we started doing some serious listening with the M700 amps, the thing that stood out to me was the greater dynamic ease the music had. It was obvious that, even though the Arcams didn't sound like they were struggling at our usual modest volume levels, they had been flattening the dynamic contrasts. The M7si speakers still mostly had the sound signature I was accustomed to hearing; but with a bit better treble and bass extension and detail, and definitely better micro and macrodynamics. There was now, of course, plenty of power in reserve to increase the volume, while the Arcams couldn't get too loud without sounding flat and constricted (begging to be turned back down).

As I'd mentioned in a previous post, there was a specific desire to hear individual instruments separate in certain songs that seem to be covered up compared to the way we remember hearing the songs years ago. Dad was quite pleased when, for every song he played that seemed to have something missing before, he could now hear what he was looking for. For me, it was the improved microdynamics that was making individual instruments stand out better while they also seemed to have a bit more complex detail and texture. Add to that the more effortless macrodynamics, and I can say the M700's renewed the M7si for a more musically satisfying experience that was still to the style or type of sound (signature) that I like.

I don't know if it was some sort of upgrade-itis; or a case of “this is good, more must be better”. Dad began to wonder if we could find a pair of good condition used Mirage M5si or M3si speakers. I kept watch on the used market for a while and remembered that I had seen some used Thiel speakers at a local audio dealer a few months before. I checked on the Thiels and found that they still had them for sale. Years ago we had heard Thiel CS 2.? (I don't remember what exact model) driven by I don't remember what amplifier at that audio dealer. What I do remember is that Dad was so impressed that for a while he wanted to buy them, but could never manage to save up enough for them. I haven't heard many stereos; but I remember that those Thiels made the best sounding music reproduction I had ever heard. Even expensive stereo systems I've heard since then haven't made songs as present, alive and musical sounding.

Luckily, these used Thiels were barely going to fit in the budget. Since we could now get serious about the purchase I looked up information on them. They are the CS 3.6 model which have wattage requirements well within the limits of the M700 monoblocks; but they are rated at between 2-3 ohms for most of the audio band. The M700 info says that they aren't 2 ohm rated. I called PS Audio to ask if the CS 3.6 will work with the amps since it has such low impedance. They said it would work without a problem.

I called the dealer to find out if they would let us audition the CS 3.6 and they set up a morning for us to come over. When we arrived at the dealer they had left the speakers playing all night so everything should be warmed up and ready. We brought some familiar CDs with us to try out. The first song we played didn't sound that good. Basically anything we played seemed to lack bass and there was some sort of harshness and/or coarseness in an area of the midrange. It might seem odd to say that, otherwise, they sounded kind of good, like there was potential in there.

I looked the speakers over carefully, and couldn't find any damage. I hoped there was nothing wrong with the crossovers as those couldn't be inspected. They mostly looked like very gently used, well cared for speakers. The dealer was driving the speakers with Bel Canto e.One Ref600m monoblocks and had them connected with a very thick blue jacketed Cardas speaker cable.

Dad said he was hearing the same things I was as we discussed whether we should buy them. We remembered how great the other model of Thiels sounded years ago; and, perhaps unwisely, reasoned that these speakers just didn't like the associated equipment. This could be risky though because the Bel Canto Ref600m is a class D amp with a power rating close to the M700, although they use different class D modules.

This risky gamble weighed on us during the trip to the bank, while we loaded the speakers in the car, and on the rainy drive home. I unhooked and moved the M7si pair out of the way, and removed one pair of speaker cables since the CS 3.6 has only one pair of terminals.

Once all hooked up, it was time to try some music. I'll expand on this as you read on; but, to put it simply, the M700 monoblocks driving the CS 3.6 made really good sounding music. They sounded even better after I adjusted their room positions as best as space and slight rearranging would allow. The sound also seemed to still improve with time even though the amps should have already been broken in.

During these experiences I began pondering a few things. One was that I might have witnessed an unexpected system mismatch. The CS 3.6 must have had a problem with the cable or monoblocks at the audio dealer; because, at home, there was no trace of harshness and the bass was as mostly present as expected (more on that below). I also wondered whether a speaker would require break-in if it had been unused for a long time. I am reasonably sure that the dealer had the CS 3.6 for at least four months or longer; so who knows when they last had music played through them. If a long dormant speaker requires break-in, that might explain some of the reason they didn't sound too good at the dealer, and why they improved over time. The other possibility I considered was that amps not only need to break-in with use; but take time to adjust to a different speaker.

I won't be able to do a comparison with the CS 3.6 directly on the Arcam A80 and P80 used as amps because I doubt they could safely drive them; and I'm not going to find out. I had thought the CS 3.6 would require the volume to be set higher; but they actually don't need the volume set as high. They are also more revealing of the background hiss, but it still isn't noticeable from the listening position. With familiar songs there is ample clear detail that sounds naturally presented. Again, I think the sound improved over time gaining a bit of ease (or smoother continuity) and delicacy where it was appropriate in a song. Whether micro or macro, dynamics are impressive, and add more to music reproduction than I realized that I had been missing.

I don't know if it was my brain adjusting or the possible long break-in; but the bass seemed to improve for a while after I had repositioned the speakers. The speakers already had better bass in their initial positions than I heard at the audio dealer, but it seemed weaker in level and extension than I expected. I gradually moved the speakers, only a few inches overall, and seemed to get a bit better bass; but I still wasn't too happy with it. At first they seemed to have less extension and weight than the M7si had; but with time and the repositioning they finally surpassed the M7si. A few days after I had quit trying to reposition them and had inserted the three pins in the base of each speaker, I wasn't critically listening but heard bass that was deeper than I'd ever heard in that song. I returned to some familiar songs and, inexplicably, there was the quantity and quality of bass that I had been hoping for.

I wish the CS 3.6 had a soundstage style more like the M7si. I realize soundstage traits are not just affected by the speaker design; but by room placement and adjustment. If I had a separate listening room, I could probably reposition the speakers for even better sound. In my real life conditions though, the M7si presented a wide soundstage with depth that went from in between me and the speakers to behind them; and images that were a bit larger than they probably should be. I felt that suited the slightly warm, fun, enjoyable sound signature they had. The CS 3.6 presents more compact and precisely drawn images that are confined to a smaller area in the general space of the speakers.

Whatever I play on this stereo now is so detailed and musically satisfying that I get completely involved in the sounds of instruments, the interactions of sounds and musicians and what thing or feeling an artist is intending. With the M7si I was enjoying music; with the CS 3.6 I am becoming completely involved in experiencing the music. All this is thanks to the capabilities of the excellent M700 monoblocks.

The upgrade itch hasn't gone away yet. Now that it has been a year there is enough funds saved up to purchase the Stellar Gain Cell. It has just barely enough inputs for us, but no tape loop (which we rarely use anyway). It will add an internal DAC to the stereo (one fewer external source necessary) and I'm sure it will be as good or better a preamp than the A80.

I bought the S300 directly from PS Audio about a year ago the only reasons were room size and speakers (at the time MMG’s). Any review is going to be subjective concerning the differences between the two amps being discussed. I’ve never heard the M700’s. But to my ears the S300’s does sound “Stellar”.

As I mentioned at the end of my previous post, I was close to getting a Stellar Gain Cell from Ivan. Well I did, and it`s here. With only a couple days break-in it is making fantastic sounding music with the M700 monos and CS 3.6 speakers. CD/SACDs sound improved, whether using the analogue or digital input. Old record albums that I've heard many times are renewed with detail that I've never heard before. The Stellar Gain Cell brings at least as large an improvement to the stereo as the M700s did.

At least to me, the manual didn't make it clear that the Balanced input and one of the single ended RCA inputs share the Source input number one. That created some confusion for about 15 minutes until I figured that out. The USB input is giving me some difficulty as well. I won't detail anything about it in this first impression post; but I'll be contacting PS Audio Monday to find out what is going on.

That's it for now. I'll try to get a post together of my experience with the Stellar Gain Cell this summer after it has fully broken-in.

Congrats.