Comparing Wilson Audio to Focal to B&W
 

Anyone ever compared these three brands? At the time I`m listening with my 802Diamonds. Wilsons have always interested me, but I auditioned the Sophia against the 802 Diamond and did not find it to be much better - never came round to listening to the bigger models though. My history with Focal goes back to JmLab - I had the Electra and after the first 927 BE - could never get used to the treble back then. What stuck in mind was a spectacular bass though. The aggressive treble made me move away from JmLab and on to B&W, where I moved through the passt 15 years with 803/802D and now 802Diamond.

Recently I thought to upgrade sometime in the next years and I wondered if Focal got the treble adjusted, further how Wilson Audio - as they seem to use the same tweeter, I think they even buy it from Focal and give it some kind of special treatment - compares to Focal and last but not least - as I have been happy with the B&W 800 Series over the past years - how these compare to the others.

I`ll start with some listening sessions next year - but I know of no dealer that has all three brands and obviously listening/comparing in my own 4 walls is out of the question due to the weight of the speakers in mind.

I will probably move away from B&W as the new D3 Series does still not convince me. To make a serious step up from the 802 Diamonds we`re probably talking the bigger Utopia models and the midrange Wilson Audio models...

So this is basically my starting point to determine if an upgrade really makes sense, what invest we`re talking about and which direction to head in... (next to upgrading the phono section finding out about this will be my major HiFi-project for the next year). It`d be great to hear if anyone has already done any comparing between these brands and would like to share experience...

All the best,

Wilson doesn't use that tweeter anymore. Their silk Dome is much better than the titanium one IMHO. So when you go back to compare, you'll be buying a Wilson. Go for Yvette if you can. Not sure what your budget is.

I personally own Marten to it's my top pick but from there I like the B&W sound better than the Wilson and the Wilson better than the Focal.

Ah - that`s good to know, thanx.

Hi Bruno 2009:
I have heard B&W's lines together with Focal's many times in NYC at Sound By Singer (Focal) and B&W (a number of dealers). B&W's high end offerings always left me cold as I always thought the crossovers were not properly implemented and the sound was always a bit disjointed to me. When paired with warmer electronics like McIntosh, these anomalies were glossed over to the point where I actually considered purchasing that combo. It is a match made in heaven--beautiful--but not very transparent. Furthermore, I have always thought that the mid and lower level B&W speakers were among the best on the market for their price. As a counter, I note that HiFi News and Record Review recently gave B&W's new flagship an outstanding review so maybe they have improved, maybe they disagree with me or maybe it's a sound better understood and appreciated in Britain. I'll have to give them a listen to see what's new under the sun in the UK.

Re Focal, I have liked virtually every speaker I have ever heard from them, the weakness being implementation of the Be tweeter which can be seamless or annoying.I'm not sure if the annoying part was based on an annoying source (I've always heard with cds and streaming--never vinyl) or the tweeter itself. I have also gone through listening sessions where the tweeter did not bother me and was, in fact, superb.
As for Wilson, years back, I thought they made flashy speakers with a cavernous presentation of highly analytical but nonmusical sound. That is because I had only heard the Watt Puppy 6s that apparently were not properly set up. With the advent of the Sophias and WP 7s, the sound to me became very musical with all of the attributes I sought in a speaker. Things have only improved at Wilson since then. But, proper set up (very necessary for Sashas and higher priced speakers--not so much for Yvette and Sabrina) and electronics (low powered ss sounds terrible on anything other than Yvette and Sabrina) are required. Once those elements are in place, Wilson's take the overall sound to a level that IMHO can not be surpassed at their respective prices.
There is nothing like hearing these speaker brands side by side with appropriate electronics which I have done only with Wilson and B&W. But that was at least 5 years ago. In that contest, it was not even close.
I note your concern re Wilson tweeters. Wilson now uses a silk dome and not the older titanium Focal. As for your comment on bass reproduction, I have always found Wilson's to be the best of these 3 brands at accurate and deep bass reproduction and indeed overall dynamic contrast in all aspects.
Listen to Sasha2 or Alexias if you can. I think you will be impressed.
This, of course is one man's opinion. Others no less familiar with these brands may disagree and they would not be wrong.
Happy New Year to all.

Comparing Wilson Audio to Focal to B&W
 

Hi - thanx for sharing your experience. I actually feed my 802Diamonds with McIntosh (C52 & MC452). I do like the sound I get out of the System at the time - just giving a few thoughts to moving on... I'll listen to some Wilson Speakers next year - note they are almost twice the price of my 802Diamonds, so I'm not really sure what improvement (not just difference) to expect...

I'm not sure Wilson even has a speaker at 15k - so it's probably not really a fair comparison anyway... think 802Diamonds are hard to beat at the price... so I`ll probably have to stretch quite a bit to make a big step.

I have as well as adding Revel into that mix. While I truly enjoyed the sound produced by Wilson to me the lineup is visually unattractive (I stated before that some of them remind me of trash cans at an amusement park from the fifties) although the newest offerings are starting to come around.

Sabrina is 15k. Yvette is the next up.

Hi - that`s in the States, not over here in Europe. The Sophia 3 goes for 27k (Euros!) and the Sabrina for 20k over here (Yvette for 31k). And I have already auditioned the Sophia and I did not find it to be far "better" sounding to my 802Diamonds, "different" - yes, but better... no. Thus my question for the bigger models... and the comparison to Focal/B&W...

It`s not like I`m not satisfied with what I get out of my system at the moment - but as for the hobby, I`m just trying to figure out how much it will cost to make a real step forward and if that`s actually worth the invest... Wilsons have interested me for quite a while... they`re just really expensive over here...

Christoph, you are right.
The price setting is different here.
That makes that certain brands are much more accessible than others.
Wilson is indeed quite expensive compared to B&W.
While in the US, the 800D3 now plays in the same league as the Sasha, it is cheaper than the Yvette here.
Don't forget to audition Sonus Faber, Vivid Audio, KEF (Blade II), Magico (S1), YG Acoustics. And there are more interesting brands.

A friend has Wilson Audio Sasha series 1 and recently we compared it to Focal Utopia Scala V2. I have always been a huge fan of the Focal Utopia range until I heard the Scala in the same room with the same electronics and I cannot begin to explain my disappointment in the Focal.

The Scala sounded absolutely terrible at low to medium volume levels. It sounded dull with poor dynamics and very uninvolving at lowish levels. It only and very suddenly comes alive basically at ear-splitting levels.

The Scala's had poor coherence and it sounded like the bass was doing it own dance. Overall it sounded uninvolving and did not draw me into the music. The Wilson was much better, and I am not a fan of the Sasha V1! Amps were Pass 100.8's

I agree with Bart, you should broaden your horizons, Vivid and YG also comes to mind.

I really like Sonus Faber - just always had the idea that they are not a perfect match for rock music - which I listen to a lot.

Christoph, just try SF with rock.
They might surprise you!

I owned Focal 1028BEs and was tired of the tinitus inducing highs at volumes that make them sound good. Brought some 804D3s home for audition, they didn't move me in any way. Brought some Sabrinas home for demo and was blown away. I tried not to need to buy them as they were twice my budget, but going back to my Focals was painful. Ordered the Sabrinas a day later.

For me it's the musicality, perfect driver integration and big beautiful center image and sound stage overall, the speakers just disappear from the picture. Lower volume performance is also a plus.

I currently own Martin Logans and at $15k you may want to audition the new Expression if they fit the room. That said I have listened a lot to the new 802's and the Sabrina. Between those two I like the 802 much better as it seems to have just a bit more of everything. To me once you get to the Sasha's and above though ... Wilson is hard to beat but then the price starting mounting for sure...

Over many years I have owned the 805S, 803D1, HTM2D1, 800D1 and most recently the 802D2 (less than 3 months) before switching to the Wilson Sasha's and I have not regretted it for a millisecond.

IMO Wilsons are truely at another level to the B&Ws for pure two channel.

@Audiohippo - my 802Diamonds retail @15k - the Sashas @40k. As said before, it's not really fair to compare these two. At 40k you're moving in direction of the original Nautilus... even the 800D3 is 10k less...

As for Focal - seems like they still have the same issue with the tweeter. I used to think Wilsons had the same problem - seem to have the problem fixed in the newer models though... I'll be listening to some soon...

Maybe also SF - we'll see how much better they play - relative to price...

You need to hear Yvette. Very close to the Sasha's.

Sasha 2s are $33950
Yvettes are $25550

In Europe Sasha 2s are 40.000 & Yvettes 31.000...

Maybe - if they really play that much better than the B&Ws (and you would have to compare to the bigger 800D3) it`s worth trying to get some in the States (I could probably get transport & import organized).

We`ll see - I`ll do some listening in the next few months...

Hi Bruno2009, when I purchased my Sabrina's I listened to the B&W's in the same store and the Focals separately. I think that the $15,000 range is a sweet spot in all the high
end speaker manufactures lines. A lot of trickle down tech and competition at that price
point. It is to bad they are not closer in price like here in the states. I think you would like
Wilson's if they were apples to apples in price. The dealer told me that he had not had anyone buy anything other than the Sabrina in that price point. Good luck in your search

I auditioned the B&W 800D series and was not a fan of the Diamond tweeter; especially when paired with Classe. I have all McIntosh pre-amps and amps and while I bet this would help a lot (as others have said) it still wasnt worth it when there are silk dome tweeters available in other brands.

I ended up going with Wilsons and dont regret it whatsoever. Focal is also intriguing and look to be a really good value. If you have the cash I would go the Wilson route but would not fault someone for getting Focal.. :)

Comparing Wilson Audio to Focal to B&W
 

Hi - in the States the Sabrina seems to be, what the 802 is in Europe - absolut "best buy" product at under 20k.



Yes, you are absolutely correct, were the price even close, I would pay a lot more attention to Wilson Audio.



As value matters to most people though, this is an issue.



Should I actually consider (some) Wilsons to be far superior to B&W, I might try to buy in the states and have them imported myself... in that case I`ll need a reliable dealer in the US. Still finding out about the differences though... Sabrina and Sophia are very beautiful products, but do not make big enough a gain in quality over the 802Diamond to me, to justify such a step... it`ll probably have to be something along the lines of the Yvette - and then I`ll have to compare to the D3 Series...

Comparing Wilson Audio to Focal to B&W
 

See how different the experiences are, due to some free time yesterday I again had the chance to audition B&Ws D2 (notD3) against Sophia and preferred the B&Ws (I knew this before, but wanted to check again, before auditioning the bigger Wilson Audios sometime later this year).



Focal - to my ears - is by far less musical sounding than B&W and still has horrible treble. It took me 10 Minutes to find that I would have the same problems with these speakers than I did 15 years back. Really do not like their sound at all - it`s fatiguing and annoying to me.



Between these three Focal has fallen out for me. Sophia and Sabrina are great speakers that do sound different to the B&W Diamonds but not by far better (especially at the european price level) - thus leaving the Yvette and/or the Sasha as only alternative, should I really decide to upgrade from the 802Diamond.



I have no doubt that they are fantastic speakers - but are they really worth two to three times the price... ?



The option of buying in the states and importing myself is still there, but I do have my problems to hassle a dealer over here to do extensive listening and then buy behind his back in another country.

Bear in mind that Wilson Audios speakers are sensitive to positioning. Badly rigged Wilsons doesn´t sound good. But well rigged and matched Wilsons is a treat to the ear and music enjoyment. It is worth the hassle. Atleast in my opinion.

Listen also to Monitor Audio Platinum 500 mk2.
You will be surprised!

You can forget all these Focals, Wilsons, B&W's IMO.

Christoph, are you in Denmark or close to ? Then i could recommend a dealer with Wilson.
I had set my mind for the Focal Sopra 2, they are good but not much better from what i have now, so i was not sure and thought why not visit a dealer and hear the Wilson to see what the talking was all about. I was simply put blown away on how good they are.
I heard the Sabrina - Yvette - Sasha 2 paired with Audio Research Ref. 6 / 150 as well as Devialet.
I have also heard the B&W but they never seem to do it for me.

Update. December 2018, some months ago i had the chance to listen to B&W 802D3 with Audioquest cabling and Accuphase E-650 , and that was really good was positively surprised on the speakers.

Comparing Wilson Audio to Focal to B&W
 

Well - considering this is the Wilson forum it's obvious that most people prefer Wilson. People on the B&W board argue the other way around. I totally agree on Focal - not my favs either. Wilsons and B&W are very different but I believe both are excellent manufacturers. B&W certainly has the better value - Wilsons seem spectacular in a different way - but then again they are up to three times the price - so that's actually not a very fair comparison. You'd probably have to throw in the original Nautilus to make an even comparison. I'm still thrilled and keep thinking to upgrade my 802s to a pair of Wilsons - but buying a three times more expensive speaker to make a serious difference does not degrade a B&W... more the opposite. Still Wilson keeps fascinating me... one day I'll probably take the step...

Compared the Yvette's to the Sasha 2's. Sasha 2's on order! :-)

Sasha 2 would probably be my upgrade of choice too - regular retail price over here is 45.000 USD (incl. Tax) though. What's the price in the states?

$34K........where is "over here?"

Best Sir,

Bob

Is that incl. Tax? That'd be 10K difference... That's steep - even considering transport and import...

I wonder how B&W manage to keep a reasonably consistent worldwide retail price while others surcharge X %

Nope. Again, "where is here?" Just curious.

Best Sir,

Bob

Germany ;-)

Cool Beans -- stationed in Worms and Stuttgart (lived in Pleidelsheim). 6 GREAT years:thumbsup: (well, minus 1 for PGW:icon_thumbsdown:).

Best to you,

Bob

Nice - I`m actually from near Düsseldorf - I know Stuttgart well though.

All the best,

400km's in Germany is nothing -- a morning drive for coffee & fresh pastry.:yes:

Now, back to topic.

Guess you're toying with a Wilson Audio Shasha purchase. Not interested in a used purchase from somewhere in the EU proper? Shashas do come in wooden crates -- which helps insulate them from a minor disaster so to speak.

Best Sir,

Bob

400 km is nothing over here - that's right ;-)

To topic - yes, I Might actually start looking for a used pair - depending on what retail price I get for a new pair. Would have to be the Sasha 2 though - from what I hear a major improvement over the first series...

Best of luck Christoph in your search and acquisition. Whatever the effort, you will be greatly rewarded.:yes:

Best Sir,

Bob

Had the opportunity to hear the Alexia mk2 today at the Chester Grp AV / Hi-Fi show and liked what I heard, in spite of the less than ideal room acoustics.

To my ears they sound very similar to the mk1 in the mid and treble with perhaps a slightly warmer overall presentation, but I would like to compare side-by-side to verify.

Re comparisons with the latest B&W 800 / 802 D3, I think that the Alexia's better manage to integrate all of the drivers in terms of time and phase which perhaps explains the more expressive and nuanced mid band and treble. However, I do like the B&W's overall tonal balance and purity so if it was me who was making the choice I might actually go with the B&W's even before looking at the price difference.

That said, the last vestige of performance that the Alexia's extract is most appreciated (imho) when the rest of the system (including the room itself) is of the highest order, which allows the ear-brain to focus on inaccuracies that it would otherwise deem less important, which includes things like time domain distortions.